Convoy hunting = frustrating!

[ZAGOR64BZ]

Hi man!
I'm far from been an expert by any means, but have you ever considered the fact that the behave like that because they spot you? Are you getting too close before diving?If spotted, the convoy will scattered and not following predictable routes. As far as DD, active sonar can and will detect you even standing still at periscope depth. Only thermal layer con conceal you.MOST OF THE TIMES, but not allways!

[fireftr18]

Zagor has a point. You may have been spotted or found by pinging. Best to get deep and follow the convoy via sonar. Wait until it's close to go to periscope depth. Also remember, the convoys will turn course just like the did in real life.

[merc4ulfate]

If you playing the Allied side I would highly advice you to get TMO, RSRD and /or the RFB mods. They have more of a normal shipping traffic in historically known shipping lanes.

There is nothing wrong with spotting convoys on the surface but perhaps your attack and evasion methods need to be worked on. The large mod packs also make the escorts and operation of the submarine more realistic. Things such as fish loading times, dive times, and efficiency of the escorts are generally made to be more realistic. For most if not all larger mod packs you will need to upgrade the stock game to 1.5.

That being said realism can get you killed so happy sailing on that.

If you enjoy playing the German side as I do then this mod list is the best:

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
OpsMonsun_V705
OMv705_to_V720
OMv720_Patch5
OMEGU_v300
OMEGU_v300_Patch7
OM_Harder_Escort_L2
UBM Missions
Popular German Music From The 30´s
OM_Pac_Env
#1 Real Environment mod install

[Raven Morpheus]

Thanks.

I'll try diving to the thermal layer and see if I get any better results (although I'm not 100% sure of how to follow contacts on SONAR) - how deep is the thermal layer BTW?

Also need to work out the diving controls as well, in SH5 I use the keyboard shortcuts or the menu buttons along the left side - in SH4 the only thing I can find so far is 1 "periscope depth" button or "crash dive" button or the dial - I'd rather use keyboard shortcuts for diving to specific depths than use the dial as it's qiucker, guess I'll have to check the manual.

I'm kind of a noob anyway, in SH5 I generally spot convoys from persicope depth and don't seem to generally have any trouble doing it.

I also don't like the way the ship contacts are represented on the nav map in SH4 - usually they're just a line (blue for warships and black for merchants), you seem to have to get really close and be at periscope depth to get a proper red mark showing the little ship icon. That works fine in SH5 for me, but obviously it's not working for me in SH4.

Perhaps I'm looking at the map in too high a scale but all I generally see (apart from the contact reports you get once in a while) is those lines and they don't make tracking a convoy easy because I can't properly see which direction the convoy is moving in so I always end up having to follow them rather than plot an intercept course.


As for playing as the Germans, I was getting bored of playing Das Boot in SH5 (even with Open Horizons II) and I've barely got past the first part of the campaign. Hence I'm now playing SH4 - change of theatre and all that.

Thanks for the suggested list of mods though.

I do have TMO, so I may install that (I previously played SH4 with it but gave up after a while, I got frustrated with having to wait hours just to get to a destination (even with time compression), but I've gotten used to that with SH5). Haven't got RSRD so I'll look that one up.

Maybe I just had bad luck with these 2 convoys but it definitely seems harder to track convoys in SH4 compared to SH5.

[magic452]

You might pick up some good info here.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=208242

Magic

[fireftr18]

Originally Posted by Raven Morpheus

Thanks.

I'll try diving to the thermal layer and see if I get any better results (although I'm not 100% sure of how to follow contacts on SONAR) - how deep is the thermal layer BTW?

The thermal layer varies. You need to check it every game, even in different areas. Be sure to go about 50 feet below.

Also need to work out the diving controls as well, in SH5 I use the keyboard shortcuts or the menu buttons along the left side - in SH4 the only thing I can find so far is 1 "periscope depth" button or "crash dive" button or the dial - I'd rather use keyboard shortcuts for diving to specific depths than use the dial as it's qiucker, guess I'll have to check the manual.

Keyboard shortcuts have a "dive" button and a "level off" button, but no specific depth. I like clicking on the dial myself, so I don't know those off the top of my head.

I'm kind of a noob anyway, in SH5 I generally spot convoys from persicope depth and don't seem to generally have any trouble doing it.

I also don't like the way the ship contacts are represented on the nav map in SH4 - usually they're just a line (blue for warships and black for merchants), you seem to have to get really close and be at periscope depth to get a proper red mark showing the little ship icon. That works fine in SH5 for me, but obviously it's not working for me in SH4.

Perhaps I'm looking at the map in too high a scale but all I generally see (apart from the contact reports you get once in a while) is those lines and they don't make tracking a convoy easy because I can't properly see which direction the convoy is moving in so I always end up having to follow them rather than plot an intercept course.

You really need to use the map tools. By marking the lines as they move, you can get the direction of travel. From there you can plot a proper intercept course. You don't get the little ship icons until you have visual contact.

As for playing as the Germans, I was getting bored of playing Das Boot in SH5 (even with Open Horizons II) and I've barely got past the first part of the campaign. Hence I'm now playing SH4 - change of theatre and all that.

Thanks for the suggested list of mods though.

I do have TMO, so I may install that (I previously played SH4 with it but gave up after a while, I got frustrated with having to wait hours just to get to a destination (even with time compression), but I've gotten used to that with SH5). Haven't got RSRD so I'll look that one up.

Maybe I just had bad luck with these 2 convoys but it definitely seems harder to track convoys in SH4 compared to SH5.

While learning the controls, I suggest waiting on installing TMO. Also, the tutorial missions are your friend. The first one is great for learning and practicing the navigation, diving, and detection controls. Make generous use of it.

[merc4ulfate]

If you want to add a real challenge to the game your should turn the auto targeting off and simply use manual targeting practices. You would not have to worry about colored lines nor arrow indicators in the scope you can fire when you are pleased with your own solution.

I do not even compute solutions any more. Most of the time I can line myself up so close that I can simply fire when the target is 10 degrees off zero and get hits. Even during the day I can normally get inside a convoy and fire from the stern and forward tubes at two ships simultaneously and wait for a second ship to cross my bow for another shot before having to dive to escape escorts. It helps greatly to have the German G7es homing torpedoes. Many times I allow the escorts to see me and then dive to lead them away from the convoy and then take them out first before attacking to the convoy itself with torpedoes and deck gun.

Some of the environmental mods increases the fog and therefore reduces surface distances where the AI's see you so being that I can control the deck gun myself I can see silhouettes in the fog where my AI crew members can not and use the deck gun without having the opposing vessel fire back. They simply can not see me. On my last patrol I took out 2/3's of the convoy this way after sinking all the escorts with the G7e's.

[SnipersHunter]

Originally Posted by fireftr18

Zagor has a point. You may have been spotted or found by pinging. Best to get deep and follow the convoy via sonar. Wait until it's close to go to periscope depth. Also remember, the convoys will turn course just like the did in real life.

Yepp that should it be

[Raven Morpheus]

OK so I've tried what you guys have said and I still can't do it.

I decided to try out the Sub School convoy attack mission.

First thing I do is dive to max depth on the dial to get below the thermal layer. Seems to be between 140ft and max depth on the Sub School mission.

The ship icons are still present but disappearing so after marking the position of the ship that is last in line but on the line of ships closest to me, I proceed with marking the end of the line that represents the position of the ship I just marked. I don't time my marks or anything I just do it when there's a fair gap between the last mark and the new position.

Then after I've got a few marks I start plotting the line the ship should be taking, joining the dots, thus giving me the supposed heading of the convoy.

Then I plot my intercept course.

All the while I'm moving at 2/3 or standard under the water at max depth on the dial.

I mark a circle of about 1000yds radius starting from the point I shall arrive at so that when I get into position I can wait within that circle and then when the ends of the lines you see drawn to indicate the ships are just within that circle I can come up to periscope depth.

In the meantime I set up my torpedos and TDC - I've been using the Dick O'Kane method for this, I seem to have it down to a tee in the torpedo Sub School mission. I set the periscope to 20 (because that's the direction the convoy is coming from), the range to 1500m-ish, the AOB to 70 (starboard with the GFO mod because the convoy is coming from my right) and the speed to 5kts, although I don't at this point know the speed as I've not measured but the markers when clicked on say slow and SONAR concurs.

So, I finally reach my position. I wait for the ships to get into the 1000yd circle and bring the boat up to 55ft, giving me 5ft to compensate for waves and I raise the periscope to take a look.


But I still find the ships have started circling as though they've spotted me!!!!


I've tried setting silent running, I've tried setting battle stations and I've tried crawling along at 1/3 (and ended up being outrun by the convoy)!!

[fireftr18]

The tutorial convoy is difficult compared to the base games career convoys. They're much better for practice.

[Raven Morpheus]

Well I nearly had them just now.

Although I was getting torpedoes exploding in the water before reaching the target which was 4000yds away. I'm guessing either I set the range too low or the torpedoes can't go that far.

So I thought I'd reload after having saved it when I was reaching position. But now, every time I reload, the ships just start turning towards me as though they instantly spot me whereas I comfortably sat at periscope depth watching them for a minute or so after my save point!!

I'll resume my career save and see if I have any better luck (have to find a convoy first) but at this point I'm actually considering going back to SH5 because tracking and taking down a convoy is just so much easier!!

[Admiral Halsey]

If your using the Mark 14 torp seeing it explode before hitting the target is normal before mid 1943.