LuftWolf and Amizaur's Realism Mod Poll #7: FFG Helo Dipper

LuftWolf · 03-03-06, 03:13 AM

As it turns out, adding a (passive) dipping sonar that would work on the FFG helo is theoretically as easy as adding a sonar sensor to the MH-60 with a vertical offset of 300ft+ and a max speed of say 8-15 knots.

Basically, the way it would work, is that the helo, flying at its default height of 300ft, would always have the sensor "in the water" but it would be washed out except when the helo is stopped.

So, basically it WOULD be a dipping sonar in all functionality, EXCEPT that the helo would not actually dip to use it, and there would be no delay as with a human helo.

I could even give it a very deep sensor as well as a shallow one for use with layers (I am contemplating doing this for AI dipping sonars on other helos and the TA on AI ships).

goldorak · 03-03-06, 03:28 AM

I'd say go for it, at least until SCS does an official fix for this issue.
One thing I don't understand is if the "dipping sonar" is always in the water (for helo at 300 ft) does the wire break if we exceed a threshold speed ?

LuftWolf · 03-03-06, 03:38 AM

It's not really a dipping sonar... it would just be a sensor assigned to the helo that is offset from the center of the platform by some assigned depth.

The game engine does not require an actual mast or cable for a sensor to be offset from a platform, this is the same way the dipping sonar works for the other AI helos (its just they follow doctrine commands exclusively and can be made to "lower" the sensor into the water) as well as sonobuoys.

goldorak · 03-03-06, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

It's not really a dipping sonar... it would just be a sensor assigned to the helo that is offset from the center of the platform by some assigned depth.

The game engine does not require an actual mast or cable for a sensor to be offset from a platform, this is the same way the dipping sonar works for the other AI helos (its just they follow doctrine commands exclusively and can be made to "lower" the sensor into the water) as well as sonobuoys.

Ok, I undestand.
What I'm trying to say is will you be able also to model the "wire breaking" if we exceed a certain speed ?
Can you assign to this sensor a paramter/variable to model the "wire" so that if we go at 200knots the "dipping sonar" is rendered definitely useless. ?
It wouldn't be good for realism if we had helo going very fast with the "dipping sonar" extended and never breaking.

Dr.Sid · 03-03-06, 04:04 AM

Well since you can't control height of the OHP hellos, there is no point in modeling wire-breaking speed.
Let's do it ! It is not as good at is could be (placing 'listen for a while' waypont for helo) no active sonar, but good idea until we have something better.
Balance can be an issue for older scenarios, but lot other patch features affect this.

LuftWolf · 03-03-06, 04:08 AM

I think you might have missed the point...

I can set the sensor to be always in the water, but not effective if the helo is moving.

The only practical consequence of doing it this way is that there is no delay in the sonar becoming effective when the helo stops... and this I can compensate for by making the sensor less sensitive than the sensor for the human dipping sonar.

Give me some more credit than that sid...

I have been testing this, and it works beautifully.

goldorak · 03-03-06, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

I think you might have missed the point...

I can set the sensor to be always in the water, but not effective if the helo is moving.

Give me some more credit than that sid...

I have been testing this, and it works beautifully.

Ah, so the "ai pilot" never forgets to "retract" the dipping sonar when going from location a to location b.

I'm drooling on this improvement

Dr.Sid · 03-03-06, 04:28 AM

Oh .. sorry oh Greatone who make our lives bright !
Here it is: *CREDIT*

LuftWolf · 03-03-06, 04:30 AM

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I was just kidding... although, I have been known to get excited over nothing before, so perhaps you were justified at being skeptical.

Still, all kidding aside, this works beautifully and it's totally badass.

XabbaRus · 03-03-06, 05:51 AM

Decent workaround for the time being.

I'd say do it.

Bellman · 03-03-06, 06:04 AM

:|\

All aboard for a cruise in the FFG now !!

Nice one LW - and a good compromise to balance increased speed of deployment with reduced sensitivity.

Can you kindly give us some idea of the order of the magniitude of the reduction ?

SeaQueen · 03-03-06, 07:03 AM

It sounds a lot like what is done in Harpoon, where every time a helo with a dipping sonar hovers, it's assumed to have dipped.

Molon Labe · 03-03-06, 10:18 AM

Not a bad idea at all; I would just be careful to test it "at the margins" so that it isnt' doing anything too wierd. In particular, I'd worry about "accidentally dipping" when it partially stops at a drop buoy/weapon waypoint or something like that.

Maybe if you kept the washout speed a bit lower than for the player-helo it would be OK (assuming it isn't now).

Mau · 03-03-06, 02:41 PM

Just confirm however that it is only when in the scenario it is designed that the helicopter will be 200 ft or less?

How is it working right now with the present ''fix'' we can find on the Subguru site? Basically the same way?

That would be a good idea yes.

Looking forward to see the fix to positively change the altitude of the AI helicopter so that we can dip and as well keep a good maritime picture around the ship!

Excellent Luftwolf!!!!!!!!

BigBadVuk · 03-04-06, 07:37 AM

Do it!....It is bether than nothing....If u use all VLADS and DICASS..u have to retrive your hello...This way u dont have to!

View Poll Results: Should I add a "dipping sonar" to the FFG AI helo?
Yes	34	97.14%
No (please explain)	1	2.86%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

03-03-06, 03:13 AM	#1
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	LuftWolf and Amizaur's Realism Mod Poll #7: FFG Helo Dipper As it turns out, adding a (passive) dipping sonar that would work on the FFG helo is theoretically as easy as adding a sonar sensor to the MH-60 with a vertical offset of 300ft+ and a max speed of say 8-15 knots. Basically, the way it would work, is that the helo, flying at its default height of 300ft, would always have the sensor "in the water" but it would be washed out except when the helo is stopped. So, basically it WOULD be a dipping sonar in all functionality, EXCEPT that the helo would not actually dip to use it, and there would be no delay as with a human helo. I could even give it a very deep sensor as well as a shallow one for use with layers (I am contemplating doing this for AI dipping sonars on other helos and the TA on AI ships). __________________ LW

03-03-06, 03:38 AM	#3
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	It's not really a dipping sonar... it would just be a sensor assigned to the helo that is offset from the center of the platform by some assigned depth. The game engine does not require an actual mast or cable for a sensor to be offset from a platform, this is the same way the dipping sonar works for the other AI helos (its just they follow doctrine commands exclusively and can be made to "lower" the sensor into the water) as well as sonobuoys. __________________ LW

03-03-06, 04:08 AM	#6
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I think you might have missed the point... I can set the sensor to be always in the water, but not effective if the helo is moving. The only practical consequence of doing it this way is that there is no delay in the sonar becoming effective when the helo stops... and this I can compensate for by making the sensor less sensitive than the sensor for the human dipping sonar. Give me some more credit than that sid... I have been testing this, and it works beautifully. __________________ LW

03-03-06, 04:30 AM	#9
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: I was just kidding... although, I have been known to get excited over nothing before, so perhaps you were justified at being skeptical. Still, all kidding aside, this works beautifully and it's totally badass. __________________ LW

03-03-06, 03:28 AM	#2
goldorak Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'd say go for it, at least until SCS does an official fix for this issue. One thing I don't understand is if the "dipping sonar" is always in the water (for helo at 300 ft) does the wire break if we exceed a threshold speed ?

03-03-06, 04:04 AM	#5
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Well since you can't control height of the OHP hellos, there is no point in modeling wire-breaking speed. Let's do it ! It is not as good at is could be (placing 'listen for a while' waypont for helo) no active sonar, but good idea until we have something better. Balance can be an issue for older scenarios, but lot other patch features affect this.

03-03-06, 04:28 AM	#8
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Oh .. sorry oh Greatone who make our lives bright ! Here it is: CREDIT

03-03-06, 05:51 AM	#10
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Decent workaround for the time being. I'd say do it. __________________

03-03-06, 06:04 AM	#11
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	:\|\ All aboard for a cruise in the FFG now !! Nice one LW - and a good compromise to balance increased speed of deployment with reduced sensitivity. Can you kindly give us some idea of the order of the magniitude of the reduction ? __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

03-03-06, 07:03 AM	#12
SeaQueen Naval Royalty Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,185 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Re: LuftWolf and Amizaur's Realism Mod Poll #7: FFG Helo Dip It sounds a lot like what is done in Harpoon, where every time a helo with a dipping sonar hovers, it's assumed to have dipped.

03-03-06, 10:18 AM	#13
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Not a bad idea at all; I would just be careful to test it "at the margins" so that it isnt' doing anything too wierd. In particular, I'd worry about "accidentally dipping" when it partially stops at a drop buoy/weapon waypoint or something like that. Maybe if you kept the washout speed a bit lower than for the player-helo it would be OK (assuming it isn't now). __________________

03-03-06, 02:41 PM	#14
Mau Sonar Guy Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 382 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Just confirm however that it is only when in the scenario it is designed that the helicopter will be 200 ft or less? How is it working right now with the present ''fix'' we can find on the Subguru site? Basically the same way? That would be a good idea yes. Looking forward to see the fix to positively change the altitude of the AI helicopter so that we can dip and as well keep a good maritime picture around the ship! Excellent Luftwolf!!!!!!!!

03-04-06, 07:37 AM	#15
BigBadVuk Ensign Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Belgrade,Serbia Posts: 222 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Do it!....It is bether than nothing....If u use all VLADS and DICASS..u have to retrive your hello...This way u dont have to! __________________ Any ship can submerge.. Only submarine can surface!

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