Government Shutdown

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

See that makes no sense to me even if you see that the government is screwed up by law you must pay the taxes it levies upon you so this is going to cost you and me and everyone more money.

True, it will cost us more money. But ahh, we're kinda hosed as it is already. Aren't we just splitting hairs at this point?

So apathy is not an option when money comes from your pocket unless you are a nihilist which I am just about 100% certain you are not.

Well what are we going to do? What are your's and mines options? The clowns in DC are running the show, we're just along for the ride if we like where their going or not. I'd love to throw the bums out - ALL of them, but that's not going to happen.

I see this as divide and conquer you say the people are so polarized with this I highly disagree the ones being lead by the pied pipers are but they are actually the minority.If you really looked you would see that most people even of different stripes who may not agree on all things want to work together it can be done.The problem is that you have pundits smashing size 12 shoes like Nikita Khrushchev and they get all the attention.

One can only hope. However, if the pulse of that polarization is what I've seen people post in comments sections all around the internet, I'm not exactly enthused about the level of good will, cooperation and compromise that ive been seeing.

The Main attraction distraction is what I call it.All the while the ones that benefit from all of this laugh all the way to the bank.

Conspiracy!

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Republicans offered a reasonable comprosmise,
.....Democrats said NO to both.
.

Reasonable depends on which side of the fence you reside on. I watched BO's press secretary say nearly the same thing, only opposite, supporting BO and Democrat's point of view. Speaking of which the reason why they said no, is because they are in a position of strength. They are not going to give one inch when they have the metaphorical high ground. Right now, it's their way or the highway.

[Oberon]

It's business as usual, Republicans say Black, Democrats say White and everything goes to the dogs around them.

I have to ask, being a Brit, but why in the heck is the US budget capable of being derailed by the Congress and Senate? Here in the UK it's set by the Treasury and while the opposition can (and usually does) decry it and complain about it, they can't stop it, not until they get into power.
Now, with something as important as the nations economic future, I can understand why the whole political spectrum would want to have its input, but it's got a major achilles heal that we're seeing now, that if a political party puts its own interests ahead of that of the nations, then the whole thing falls apart, and given how the US economy is...well...in an interesting location, and coming up for the ceiling adjustment, well...now is really not the time for playing chicken.

[Bubblehead1980]

Reasonable depends on which side of the fence you reside on. I watched BO's press secretary say nearly the same thing, only opposite, supporting BO and Democrat's point of view. Speaking of which the reason why they said no, is because they are in a position of strength. They are not going to give one inch when they have the metaphorical high ground. Right now, it's their way or the highway.[/QUOTE]


I think anyone that is being fair could agree that dropping a tax is easy to see as part of the rising costs being passed on to consumers and the mandate that even for those who do not know the constitutional side of the argument, knows that the federal government forcing citizens to purchase a product is wrong and against the very fabric of this country.Reasonable compromise was offered, drop the bad parts of this law, or delay them, they delayed the business mandate, why not the individual? The individual is far more offensive and oppressive than the business mandate.

You know it is funny some are saying Republicans are putting their politics above the nation, they are in fact fighting for the nation.Polls show people do not support this law, never really have, Republicans are fighting for the people, Democrats are fighting to save obozos legacy and their agenda.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Sure, shut it down and ruin the nation's credit and economy. Force untold numbers of people to lose their jobs and homes. All so you can prove an ideological political point.

I guess it's too much to ask motherhumpers to stop humping their mothers for the sake of the nation.

Not to prove an ideological point, but to stop a monstrosity from getting further entrenched.Want to talk about hardship? This law is and will cause even more.

[mapuc]

I think most countries will turn to Euro if USA goes bankruptcy.

Not that Euro is better than the American dollar. However how Worthy will the dollar be if USA goes bankruptcy?

Markus

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I think most countries will turn to Euro if USA goes bankruptcy.

Not that Euro is better than the American dollar. However how Worthy will the dollar be if USA goes bankruptcy?

Markus

Doubt they'd go Euro, Gold maybe, or Yuan, but considering if the US goes bankrupt then China will swiftly follow and the whole house of cards comes crashing down. Ruble is possible, or some sort of Arabian dollar.

But the US won't default, a last minute deal will likely avoid disaster, it's just a case of who blinks first really.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I think most countries will turn to Euro if USA goes bankruptcy.

Not that Euro is better than the American dollar. However how Worthy will the dollar be if USA goes bankruptcy?

Markus

About as worthless as the Euro currently is.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Conspiracy!

Not really I was talking about the pundit talking heads someone pays them and well to do what they do.So they laugh all the way to the bank.A do the huge corporations that take advantage of all the loopholes and cut workers hours despite the fact that most do not pay much of any taxes the corporations that is and Warren Buffet said that he is one of the wealthiest men in the US and the world for that matter I am prety sure that he knows the many in and outs of how to generate wealth he just is honest is all.

And long term the system is screwed because when things go south the people paying the largest burden of the taxes (you and me) well there is not enough revenue coming in from our taxes alone.So in the long run the 1% that has all the wealth they actually would make more money if things where more fairly split instead of controlling a huge amount and having a smaller amount of wealth they could have less assets but those assets would generate greater wealth and the underlings would have more capital as well.But humans are greedy and greed means the easiest route to wealth.

Not a conspiracy I am not saying that Jews are doing this to dominate the world or that 1 million old lizard men are doing this to please Klimzad that would be a conspiracy theory.Simply look at the income ratios over the last 40 years most everyone has had no increase while the top 1% have had a huge increase in income it is no conspiracy but obvious fact.The direct result of deregulation.

[Bilge_Rat]

I really, really, really hope the GOP nominate Cruz for president in 16.....

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Not really.....

I was being sarcastic. I know what you meant, I just couldn't pass up a moment of sarcasm.

[Tchocky]

Massive confusion in this thread of a government shutdown with a failure to lift the debt ceiling.

They are very different things with very different results.

Government has shut down seventeen times. Debt ceiling has always been raised.

[Wolferz]

They (our elected leaders) must see themselves the way the banksters see themselves... "Too big to fail" But fail they will. The government will go down like a drogue stone when the rope finally breaks and all their bankster buddies will get sucked into the vortex with them when the tax revenues can no longer pay the interest on the debt. Jacking up the debt ceiling and propping it up with skinny little poles will not solve the problem... ever. But they continue to add more drainage of the treasury with new departments and agencies and more and more of the same old song and dance.

The saddest part is their arrogance in thinking that the debt will just magically disappear as long as they pay the interest on it. I wonder what the interest payment is on 17.5 trillion. If I ran my personal finances they way the government runs the public trust, I'd be broke for the next thousand years.
We lost way too many jobs and the tax revenues went with them.
I can't pay my debts with vapor money and neither can they.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

After a bit of reading, it appears both congress and the white house will continue to draw checks. What a bummer. None of those bums should be getting paid IMO.

Lucky them. The latest email I got said "Your company will probably let you use your vacation time if you are determined to be in a non-essential position."


As long as this doesn't last more than two and a half weeks, it's all good. Maybe. I really hope the kids don't get sick later this year.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Massive confusion in this thread of a government shutdown with a failure to lift the debt ceiling.

They are very different things with very different results.

Government has shut down seventeen times. Debt ceiling has always been raised.

The two have a link though in that Obama or the Republicans have chosen this week to have their stand-off rather than defer it to next week. I suspect, given that it's the Democrats that have rejected the Republican backed bill that it's Obama who has decided to have the showdown this week, since the Republicans wanted to push the funding for 'Obamacare' into next week, which would then be the same time that the debt ceiling vote comes through and they would be able to torpedo the 'Obamacare' package by using the debt ceiling as a threat to try to force Obama to back down. By fighting his battle this week, Obama then has crucial time to take what measures he needs to take to undercut the Republicans so that the debt ceiling raise goes ahead with little to no fuss.
That's mine and a few other peoples take on it anyway.

razark, good luck, it's easy to forget the people in the middle have faces too.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

They (our elected leaders) must see themselves the way the banksters see themselves... "Too big to fail" But fail they will. The government will go down like a drogue stone when the rope finally breaks and all their bankster buddies will get sucked into the vortex with them when the tax revenues can no longer pay the interest on the debt. Jacking up the debt ceiling and propping it up with skinny little poles will not solve the problem... ever. But they continue to add more drainage of the treasury with new departments and agencies and more and more of the same old song and dance.

The saddest part is their arrogance in thinking that the debt will just magically disappear as long as they pay the interest on it. I wonder what the interest payment is on 17.5 trillion. If I ran my personal finances they way the government runs the public trust, I'd be broke for the next thousand years.
We lost way too many jobs and the tax revenues went with them.
I can't pay my debts with vapor money and neither can they.

They don't care, they'll still get paid, they'll still get benefits for life and can work for any global corporation. The people that will get hurt are the middle class and poor. Every study I've seen says in the next 20 years about 10% of people/corps will hold 80-90 of all real wealth.

If you ride around, things don't look that bad, people in nice houses, cars, etc, but the majority of them really own nothing, just mass loads of debt. I saw one report that 75% of Americans are one crisis away from utter poverty.

Every serious economist agrees a large crisis is coming, because we continue to kick the can down the road.