rsrd convoys; where are they

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by JoeCorrado

Between March 1942 and March 1945 there were over 1,000 Ultra Messages sent to commanders operating in the Pacific. Each message was the result of the American's having broken the Japanese code. The messages were fairly common and dealt with information both mundane and critical, one item they revealed was naval units assigned to escort duty. From this information- critical information regarding convoy routes and escort strengths were gleaned and the mentioned Ultra Messages relayed to commands that were believed most likely to benefit from the information, or that could be POSITIONED in order to take advantage of the information. For the U.S. submarine fleet, this meant being in the right place, at the right time, and sinking ships.


I do not wish to argue the RSRDC model for merchant shipping- and the work put into the recreation of known shipping, both military and merchant, is nothing short of incredible. However, I expect that the BEST service for RSRDC would be to make it an even truer representation of reality by including ships and convoys that we do not have official written proof of, but which MUST have existed since it was in fact sunk.

1943-1944 was the U.S. Submariner's "Happy Time" and that's all I am looking for from the game- a little happy time. LOL I have targets aplenty (too many in fact ) with just GFO and a few added mods, but I do so miss the "realism" of actual naval battles that RSRD provided. This aspect of RSRD represents the pinnacle of modding success in my humble opinion.

It isn't really a question of adequate targets IF you know when and where- Ultra Messages don't appear to be much of a factor at all in RSRD- but Does RSRDC provide ships (target opportunities) in the numbers necessary to account for the KNOWN tonnage sunk during the war- even for just the official totals confirmed by the U.S. Submarine Force? These ships would have sailed and sailed again being potential targets each time till they were eventually sunk. Does RSRD account for the same ships or only if they are mentioned by name in a convoy report? SH4 has many followers and the "realism" factor should be balanced with the playability factor. That is my only point.

That is the point, RSRD has realism AND playability. 1942 was slow convoy wise and thus is in RSRD. There are plenty of singles and pairs and plenty of TF activity.Again, much as in real life, its matter of luck in a lot of cases.This is the fun, it's not a shooting gallery but the chance for a real big score is there.Sometimes, you get lucky and stumble across multiple convoys.Want a lot of convoys? play in 43 and 44, early 45.42 is slow convoy wise per history and so is mid 44 until the end of war.

I just think before people talk about lack of convoys etc they should stop, and invest a little more time to find out.I was once one of those people but I figured it out.

[Armistead]

If you hunt the historical shipping lanes in RSRD, you'll find plenty of convoys.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Armistead

If you hunt the historical shipping lanes in RSRD, you'll find plenty of convoys.

Exactly.I was once, long ago, one of those who thought there were not enough convoys in RSRD.I added some that should be there in certain areas such as east china sea, east of hainan island via luzon straits to japan but even without those, there are plenty

[JoeCorrado]

As you likely know by now- I am no purist for realism, my realism level runs at bout 60% but I do try to stay within my patrol area following my mission parameters- and you can't sink what isn't there. I agree that IF you are in the right place at the right time, there is shipping. No doubt about it.

Problem is, even setting up outside a port that should be active will yield no targets most times in RSRD. That really is not realistic. A good sized port with zero traffic in or out, is counter intuitive unless your presence is already known. And even then, your targets would likely be ASW units.

Likewise, there is a lack of even local merchants- typical strategy if no larger targets were available, was often to move closer to shore and attack smaller merchants that would travel the coast for safety. Again- you can't sink what isn't there in RSRDC.

So, if you maintain integrity of assigned mission, that leaves port raiding. While it was sometimes done in order to force the issue, in SH4 it is about as gamey as it gets unless it matches your mission assignment.

I think that ultra messages could resolve (or at least mitigate) the empty seas issue in RSRDC that some of us suffer from- these messages were quite typical and were also very effective in placing our subs in the right place at the right time. If you received even two or three ultra's that fine tuned your search during a 30 day patrol in an otherwise barren sea- it would add to the enjoyment factor. Maybe an increase in shipping is not the only possible resolution?

Stock game shipping is way, way, way too abundant. And the ultra messages never end- Sometimes the over abundance of the stock campaign is worse that the shortage of RSRDC-

I don't dislike the idea of spending a 30 day patrol and getting just a few ships- even the opportunity of sighting ships even if they get away. No problem at all. That is pretty realistic since a skipper who could nab an average of three or four ships per patrol, was considered top shelf indeed.

Spending a thirty day patrol with zero contacts in your assigned area was frustrating as it could be in real life- and it did happen occasionally- but for a game, that is just not very fun.

I regret if it comes off as whiny or complainant. RSRDC is the culmination of a vast amount of work- but as even Duci used to say- the ability to have a favorite mod "flavored to taste" is the goal. If I had a more accommodating "real life" I would attempt to learn the methods of tweaking in order to provide an alternative which provides the "sweetened target availability" that some percentage here hope for while preserving the great aspects of RSRDC relative to the historic records that are so awesome is RSRDC.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Exactly.I was once, long ago, one of those who thought there were not enough convoys in RSRD.I added some that should be there in certain areas such as east china sea, east of hainan island via luzon straits to japan but even without those, there are plenty

I am reading a great novel "Submarine" which reminds me again of the tactics of a sub skipper, and I don't want my RSRDC experience to make me one of those skippers who could just never find the war. LOL

[c13Garrison]

I havn't been able to be much involved lately (rehearsal season has started) but I'll toss my 2 bits in on this.

I would very much like to know what a "historic" intercept chance for US subs on Ultra convoys was. By my experience it is about 1 in 12. You can travel to the area indicated and yet still miss the convoy entirely if it is beyond your detection range.

I know the many boxes and diamonds on the stock game are not realistic and gamey, but it would be nice to be able to at least draw a plot on that convoy from Rabaul to Pelieu. Even if its 800 miles and frought with margin of error, at least I would feel I was putting myself in the best chance to succeed.

Hope everyone is well!

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by c13Garrison

I havn't been able to be much involved lately (rehearsal season has started) but I'll toss my 2 bits in on this.

I would very much like to know what a "historic" intercept chance for US subs on Ultra convoys was. By my experience it is about 1 in 12. You can travel to the area indicated and yet still miss the convoy entirely if it is beyond your detection range.

I know the many boxes and diamonds on the stock game are not realistic and gamey, but it would be nice to be able to at least draw a plot on that convoy from Rabaul to Pelieu. Even if its 800 miles and frought with margin of error, at least I would feel I was putting myself in the best chance to succeed.

Hope everyone is well!

Regarding RSRD, you won't get a lot of ultra's until later war, about mid 43 onward. Also keep in mind groups make several course changes, so often you're left out in left field. Still, most follow historic shipping lanes.

As stated earlier, RSRD spawns groups and port and despawns at ports. Try to figure which port it is headed towards. If you can find a bottleneck or straight to ambush in, instead of trying to catch it in the open.

[TorpX]

From reading Blair, I've gotten the impression that the Ultra messages were not all that worthwhile (at least tactically). Even where the information was timely and accurate, it was easy to miss an intercept.

I think the information was more useful strategically; that is it provided an overall picture of IJ shipping, but didn't necessarily help that much in allowing individual subs to torpedo targets.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by JoeCorrado

As you likely know by now- I am no purist for realism, my realism level runs at bout 60% but I do try to stay within my patrol area following my mission parameters- and you can't sink what isn't there. I agree that IF you are in the right place at the right time, there is shipping. No doubt about it.

Problem is, even setting up outside a port that should be active will yield no targets most times in RSRD. That really is not realistic. A good sized port with zero traffic in or out, is counter intuitive unless your presence is already known. And even then, your targets would likely be ASW units.

Not really. With RSRD almost every group spawns at port and despawns at port. I think what's confusing many is that certain historic ports saw bulk of traffic at different times. Another issue, RSRD spawns at many ports that aren't on the map. Again, with RSRD the convoy system containing larger convoys didn't start until later war.