Getting a bit tired of not finding any ships on the open seas.

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by les green01

you gave the secret away now some big mouth congressman will shoot off his mouth and the japs will move the merchants and you will have to look all over again.

The May incident right?

[les green01]

yep lol people like that should be line up and shot or hang.i read book that one of the code breakers wrote that we didn't break one of the codes that japan use not even to this day to bad we couldn't get our hands on them papers and break the code. I have always done good in the sea of japan and area 7 is always good.

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by les green01

yep lol people like that should be line up and shot or hang.i read book that one of the code breakers wrote that we didn't break one of the codes that japan use not even to this day to bad we couldn't get our hands on them papers and break the code. I have always done good in the sea of japan and area 7 is always good.

I hate the fact May come from my home sweet home of Kentucky.

[JoeCorrado]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

RSRD's traffic is mostly historically accurate, there is a lack of convoys in areas where there were plenty of them but its prob 90% accurate and an impressive piece of work. I've added some myself and releasing it in an upcoming mod.

I can hardly wait for your increased traffic MOD for RSRD. I love the fact that RSRD includes the naval engagement, I have been a fan for years.But the lack of merchant traffic is a real downside.

I have been tempted to remove all together, I recently removed TMO and am sticking with just RSRD for now. Like you said; Once you're hooked (on the historical naval traffic/battles aspect) - you're hooked. A MOD that adds a bit more merchant traffic to the mix would (for me anyway) improve the game play aspect and make it just about perfect.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by JoeCorrado

I can hardly wait for your increased traffic MOD for RSRD. I love the fact that RSRD includes the naval engagement, I have been a fan for years.But the lack of merchant traffic is a real downside.

I have been tempted to remove all together, I recently removed TMO and am sticking with just RSRD for now. Like you said; Once you're hooked (on the historical naval traffic/battles aspect) - you're hooked. A MOD that adds a bit more merchant traffic to the mix would (for me anyway) improve the game play aspect and make it just about perfect.

Well glad there is anticipation for the mod.

Hmm what year and area are you patroling? RSRD has no overall lack of traffic, just have to be in correct time and place(with few exceptions, thus why i am trying to mod to solve that) but some areas has less than others per history.

Well my mod adds traffic in areas that should have more convoys than they do and it will also add missing convoys(Take Ichi, HI-81, tanker convoys running from indochina east of hainan island through luzon straits to home islands) but I removed singles after June of 44 except for a few running the coast etc because japanese stopped letting valuable merchants run solo across open ocean by that point.

Let me know what year/area you are on patrol in and I will try to suggest where to find the traffic.

[Rockin Robbins]

Part of the problem with RSRD is that unless there is some kind of semi-official record of traffic, then it didn't exist. Early in the War, 1942 and most of 1943 that was a Japanese ocean and OF COURSE they didn't register their ship movements through US channels so we could make future games accurate. They didn't even bother to give Ubi headquarters a phone call!

So because we had no decent monitoring ability in the Japanese Ocean, and after war records there tended to be destroyed, altered and lost, we just assume that no information means no ships? YES!!!! And so we have nothing to find in the early war.

It's no coincidence that after we had some success and could operate in larger parts of the Pacific we had more knowledge of deployments and suddenly our game traffic blossoms.

There are so many problems of making a purely "historical" campaign mod. Yes, it's fun to check out the Tokyo Express coming down the Slot, but I wonder if we give up too much for the thrill. Thinking back, my most memorable encounters in SH4 have happened without RSRD.

The other aspect of RSRD is that it emphasizes the operations of warships. The one lesson of WWII in the Pacific was that our subs were next to useless against warships. They were four times faster than a submerged sub and so the chance of getting a shot was poor. Add that to the negative consequences of reprisal, being forced down long enough for all targets to be in a position from which you can no longer attack them IF you survive. Warships were not profitable targets for our submarines outside of lucky encounters where the warship decided to pose compliantly while we sent presents their way. That didn't happen often. The best warship target out there was a destroyer.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Part of the problem with RSRD is that unless there is some kind of semi-official record of traffic, then it didn't exist. Early in the War, 1942 and most of 1943 that was a Japanese ocean and OF COURSE they didn't register their ship movements through US channels so we could make future games accurate. They didn't even bother to give Ubi headquarters a phone call!

To make matters worse, not only did the Japanese not register with us. They often didn't register with themselves.

The authority to direct shipping was divided among stubbornly noncooperative Navy, Army and civilian agenices. Responsibilty for escorting and protecting shipping was even more dispersed among numerous naval districts with inadequate personnel and resources. Since there was no central authority early in the war to organize convoy traffic, most ships sailed singly and without escort to and from their destinations.

The ugly rivalry between the Japanese Army and Navy was such that Army began creating its own amphibious infantry units and running ships and submarines including submarine chasers, the Navy meanwhile would end up creating its own paratroop force.


The upshot was that when an Army transport decided to up anchor and leave port under Army orders, it often didn't bother to inform the Navy and vice versa.

[JoeCorrado]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Let me know what year/area you are on patrol in and I will try to suggest where to find the traffic.

Early war- patrolling where I would expect to find tons of traffic.

First patrol was East China Sea Patrolled along the area North and East of Formosa where the RSRD-TMO convoy route map showed two routes converging- went the entire patrol with not a single ship spotted. Sonar appear to be working OK because as my fuel ran short, I decided to attack one of the Okinawa ports the patrol craft were detected properly.

Ditto for the second Patrol except I was tasked with Paroling the shipping lanes to the East of Formosa. I hung around the Southern Tip of the Island patrolling southward approx. 80 miles and along the shipping lanes running to the NE. Again, nothing. Very frustrating to creep into a port and make a raid there. Feels like I am admitting failure to find my stated target- merchant shipping.

Of course I would have been pleased to bump into a task force or something but so far as shipping goes- I am all alone on the sea. Plenty of aircraft - in my second patrol, I felt that I was def in the right spot- had to dive a total of 15 times to avoid enemy air patrols.

Not sure what is up- I had been away from the game for an extended period and have just begun playing again- the reason I deleted TMO and did a fresh instal of SH4 was because I got to feeling like something was broken. All equipment works properly if I test it with a single mission with known targets.

All patroling and no engagements makes Joe a dull boy.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by JoeCorrado

Early war- patrolling where I would expect to find tons of traffic.

First patrol was East China Sea Patrolled along the area North and East of Formosa where the RSRD-TMO convoy route map showed two routes converging- went the entire patrol with not a single ship spotted. Sonar appear to be working OK because as my fuel ran short, I decided to attack one of the Okinawa ports the patrol craft were detected properly.

Ditto for the second Patrol except I was tasked with Paroling the shipping lanes to the East of Formosa. I hung around the Southern Tip of the Island patrolling southward approx. 80 miles and along the shipping lanes running to the NE. Again, nothing. Very frustrating to creep into a port and make a raid there. Feels like I am admitting failure to find my stated target- merchant shipping.

Of course I would have been pleased to bump into a task force or something but so far as shipping goes- I am all alone on the sea. Plenty of aircraft - in my second patrol, I felt that I was def in the right spot- had to dive a total of 15 times to avoid enemy air patrols.

Not sure what is up- I had been away from the game for an extended period and have just begun playing again- the reason I deleted TMO and did a fresh instal of SH4 was because I got to feeling like something was broken. All equipment works properly if I test it with a single mission with known targets.

All patroling and no engagements makes Joe a dull boy.

Early war is different.The Japanese are expanding empire so a lot of invasion forces on the move.A lot of traffic in Luzon Straits, off Philippines, Java Sea, Karimata Straits, little bit from Truk to Rabaul, Celebes Area, East China Sea. Not as much off home islands as would think but from early patrol reports I have read it appears correct.

Once the initial "expansion" quiets down and conquests are made, routine system of shipping kicks in around summer of 42 but mostly singles since Japanese didnt take ASW serious at this point and convoys were pretty rare, you start seeing more of them in late 42.

[Bilge_Rat]

There is a map which shows the shipping lanes, I believe it is integrated in TMO although it may be an add-on mod.

If you stay close to those lanes/ ports and/or choke points where many lanes meet, you will usually run into something.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

To make matters worse, not only did the Japanese not register with us. They often didn't register with themselves.
...

I had suspected something of this nature might be the case. There is a very large discrepancy between claimed tonnage and JANAC tonnage.

If I were to attempt to construct a SH4 traffic campaign, I think it would be better to use the overall number of Japanese ships/tonnage and lay down patterns accordingly, than to try to recreate every convoy the Imperial Japan formed (or recorded).

[JoeCorrado]

Originally Posted by TorpX

I had suspected something of this nature might be the case. There is a very large discrepancy between claimed tonnage and JANAC tonnage.

If I were to attempt to construct a SH4 traffic campaign, I think it would be better to use the overall number of Japanese ships/tonnage and lay down patterns accordingly, than to try to recreate every convoy the Imperial Japan formed (or recorded).

I think that a more accurate guesstimate of shipping traffic for Japan would be to basically mirror that of England during the war. I would expect that the two countries had similar requirements and capabilities; each being island nations dependent upon shipping to fill their wartime needs. Japan may actually have exceeded the shipping capacity of England in the early years of the war.

[Rockin Robbins]

However you figure it, it's not possible to posit the empty ocean of RSRD 1942 and early 1943. I usually have to raid Rabaul harbor to get enough tonnage to keep my command.

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

However you figure it, it's not possible to posit the empty ocean of RSRD 1942 and early 1943. I usually have to raid Rabaul harbor to get enough tonnage to keep my command.

Do you have the RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

However you figure it, it's not possible to posit the empty ocean of RSRD 1942 and early 1943. I usually have to raid Rabaul harbor to get enough tonnage to keep my command.

42's a great year for battles and invasion groups. 43 I hang in the Truk to Home Waters lane. The Singy/Borneo is always a great shipping lane.