Creationist Explains How Humans Could Have Hunted The Tyrannosaurus Rex

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by August

I have believed to a long time that the Bible and other religious texts make a lot more sense if you see them as just as a collection of stories designed to teach a moral.

Like if god commands it you should murder your own child?

[August]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

Like if god commands it you should murder your own child?

You're missing the point.

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by August

You're missing the point.

The point I didn't miss was that you advocate the bible as a moral educator, so I simply point out that as a moral educator containing such moral lessons like being willing to murder your own child might be very confusing to someone trying to educate themselves 'morally'

There are a great many other examples, I just picked on one of the worst. Do you wish me to do some digging?

[August]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

The point I didn't miss was that you advocate the bible as a moral educator, so I simply point out that as a moral educator containing such moral lessons like being willing to murder your own child might be very confusing to someone trying to educate themselves 'morally'

There are a great many other examples, I just picked on one of the worst. Do you wish me to do some digging?

I didn't advocate anything. I only said that the bible and other religious texts make a lot more sense if you look at them as a collection of stories with a moral than as a history book.

You're the one trying to assign a literal meaning to them and in that you are just like the Creationists.

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by August

I didn't advocate anything. I only said that the bible and other religious texts make a lot more sense if you look at them as a collection of stories with a moral than as a history book.

You're the one trying to assign a literal meaning to them and in that you are just like the Creationists.

I'm not assigning a literal meaning - it is all fiction to me and thus has no literal meaning - it is a fantasy. I'm asking how such stories can be considered good moral teaching when they contain such abhorrent, downright blasphemous stories like the one I mentioned. [edit] I'm also saying I think that the morals of many of the stories are suspect, to say the least.

How am I like creationists?

[August]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

I'm not assigning a literal meaning - it is all fiction to me and thus has no literal meaning - it is a fantasy. I'm asking how such stories can be considered good moral teaching when they contain such abhorrent, downright blasphemous stories like the one I mentioned. [edit] I'm also saying I think that the morals of many of the stories are suspect, to say the least.

How am I like creationists?

Whether you agree with it or not you're still assigning a literal meaning to a bible story. I think the lesson taught by Issac is about obedience and sacrifice. You'll note that God didn't actually make Abraham kill his son.

I'm asking how such stories can be considered good moral teaching when they...

I made no such claim. You seem to demand either perfection or total rejection of the entire text. I would not be so dismissive.

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by August

Whether you agree with it or not you're still assigning a literal meaning to a bible story. I think the lesson taught by Issac is about obedience and sacrifice. You'll note that God didn't actually make Abraham kill his son.

But he made damn well sure Abraham was willing didn't he?
Got to be honest when I was read that story by a teacher my blood ran cold.

[edit] also I have to add, obedience to a murderous command? the sacrifice of your child? for what reason? because god is so insecure he needs to play a power trip on a little man to obey his command to murder his child for no other reason than god said so?

Or was it the absolute subjugation of the innate human knowledge that murdering your child is terribly wrong, and yet if you have faith that god knows best you still would? To me this is a poisonous lesson whichever way you look at it.

You see the trouble with subjective interpretation? we can experience the same story and yet take practically opposite meanings away from it. [/edit]

Originally Posted by August

I made no such claim. You seem to demand either perfection or total rejection of the entire text. I would not be so dismissive.

I make no such demands.

If it is to be held up as stories with morals, then call it how it is, fantastical stories with some good and some bad morals, often in the exact same story. The good morals can all be more directly taught without involving metaphysics anyway. Aesops fables or the I-Ching springs to mind, and both are self admittedly absolute allegory.

I would be satisfied with a conscientious edit, actually. That is if believers expect me to simply concede that their judgement of good or bad morals is correct. I have one huge problem with the arguments against literal meanings or subjective interpretation. If the story involving Abraham or indeed any biblical story is allegory, then why are some parts of the bible considered literal truth, like the existence of the christian 'God' at all? It is one thing to accuse me of assigning literal meanings to a fantasy story, but everyone who believes in the christian god assigns a literal meaning to all parts of the bible that suggest the existence of god.

Where is the differentiation between what is considered literal truth and allegory? who decides? each to their own? Who is right?

[MH]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

Like if god commands it you should murder your own child?

Here we go again...
Some cherry picks again.
Actually there is so much theology , philosophy and ethic based on bible.
Whole volumes of books that deal with ethics and humanism .
No one actually takes bible (old testament)literally besides ignorant atheist who try to prove some points and faithful ignorant morons.

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by MH

Here we go again...
Some cherry picks again.
Actually there is so much theology , philosophy and ethic based on bible.
Whole volumes of books that deal with ethics and humanism .
No one actually takes bible (old testament)literally besides ignorant atheist who try to prove some points and faithful ignorant morons.

Sorry would you like me to paraphrase the entire chapter?

[MH]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

Sorry would you like me to paraphrase the entire chapter?

No

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by MH

Here we go again...
No one actually takes bible (old testament)literally besides ignorant atheist who try to prove some points and faithful ignorant morons.

Post edited for shamefully poor reading comprehension on my part. :P