SH5 is still collecting dust, questions...

[GoldenRivet]

I downloaded a majority of the mods listed above, many of them are interface and graphic improvements and are wonderful mods. I have to give the modders credit, they are doing their best to turn a Ford Pinto into a world class super car - they have little to work with.

After playing through a couple of patrols into the night and early this morning I'm afraid Silent Hunter 5 is just too far gone a lame horse to continue to be dealt with as far as i am concerned.

I have tried time and time again to give this game a fair shake but the interface, even when modded is clunky and awkward - mostly due to the key commands and the lack of a dial type system that silent hunter players have been accustomed to for decades.

the voice acting is an atrocity... somewhere in the series with silent hunter 4 this started to become an issue, and im not sure why but SH3 doesnt have this problem - but SH4 and SH5 have the issue which is still ongoing where the crew takes 3 - 4 second pauses between words... I cant explain it "Escort sighted!!........... bearing......... three....... one........ zero"

atop of that the crew AI seems highly excitable at times that it would seem inappropriate to be shouting

the "story" feels very poorly conceived, unbelievable and lacking in historical accuracy and needs to be completely modded out of the game entirely.

Where they thought it might be a good idea to talk to the watch officer about his goofy children is beyond me, it adds nothing to the experience. This was not something that was missing from previous versions of the series and it is a completely unnecessary feature.

this interpersonal interaction nonsense could have been much more credible if it were handled like the interactions with characters like in half life two... go up, click on them and they will say something mostly inconsequential "Morning sir" "afternoon captain" or any number of non-essential salutations and phrases that didnt require a deep story line which would impede re playability.

additionally, i find moving around the sub to be an awkward experience as well. while neat, and a great feature, i think it would have been improved to have a small layout of the boat on the bottom of the screen (similar to the damage control screen in SH3) by single clicking on a compartment, your captain would automatically walk there without any other input from you. double click and he runs there. - but you still have the option to move there yourself if you want... i think this would have made moving around the sub much easier.

i think i am going to hang it up again at least untill the story line can be erased and the key commands can mirror SH3 or be similar to SH3.

the modders within the community have taken an atrocious horrible game and made it playable. my hat is off to them.

but i think they could have done more if the game was good to start with

[Dogfish40]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I downloaded a majority of the mods listed above, many of them are interface and graphic improvements and are wonderful mods. I have to give the modders credit, they are doing their best to turn a Ford Pinto into a world class super car - they have little to work with...



...the modders within the community have taken an atrocious horrible game and made it playable. my hat is off to them.

but i think they could have done more if the game was good to start with

I too, was horrified when I played the tutorial mission (no Mods). However, I must say that, compared to other simulations, this one is one of the best after mods. For one, it isn't a game, so the storyline is not really that much of a bother. It can be written out I suppose, but that leaves a lot of time to do nothing at all. I play the game very slowly, I use TC sparingly so immersion is important. This Simulation has a huge map, virtual freedom. No script; where you have to follow a certain path, do a certain thing to make the next act play out. It's not a game like that. Sure there are things missing, half the control room crew on fast dives are not even there (though the sounds are thanks to DBSM), however, show me a game that gives this much detail (getting better all the time) with virtually free missions. I can't compare this to SH4 or 3. The Voice acting on both of those was (to me) just as quirky.
Still, the improvments are incredible, and when I'm on the bridge, it looks as close as it can be to the Atlantic. At least I can't think of another to compare it to.
I'll be playing this one for some time.

[GoldenRivet]

please do not take the following as an attack against SH5 or its players... this is simply a discussion relating to what *I* feel sh5 is or is not missing.

thanks

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

For one, it isn't a game, so the storyline is not really that much of a bother. It can be written out I suppose, but that leaves a lot of time to do nothing at all. I'll be playing this one for some time.

I played an entire 1x time compression patrol in Silent Hunter III and never had a problem with not being able to ask my XO about his sick wife... just saying, one thing that was great about prior installments in the series is that you could make up your own story line, come to subsim forums, write stories about your experiences and go as deep or as shallow with it as you wanted. With SH5 everyone has the same characters, the same back story, the same crew etc. There is no individuality to it. instead of being commanders at sea with our own persona, we are all basically playing the same role, playing the same character, having the same experience with SH5.

with prior installations we were all individuals at sea, each forum member had his own boat and crew and had his own unique experiences at sea... in Silent Hunter's current state... a large chunk of that element feels absent

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

I play the game very slowly, I use TC sparingly so immersion is important. This Simulation has a huge map, virtual freedom.

As is the case with SHIII and IV

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

No script; where you have to follow a certain path, do a certain thing to make the next act play out. It's not a game like that.

actually, it is a game like that. Ubi said so... There is a specific progress that you have to take through the game, specific ships that the game wants you to encounter and sink, specific conditions that must be met that do affect the next battery of missions.

Ubisoft made the campaign this way... it is semi-dynamic... meaing you can go out and explore the seven seas as you wish, however, the game wants you to encounter and sink a carrier, or encounter and sink specific troop ships - otherwise there will be a specific set of consequences later in the campaign.

prior versions of silent hunter were fully dynamic - go anywhere, sink anything, do as you wish and it is non scripted. comparatively SH5 is considerably more heavily scripted than SH 3 and 4. (perhaps the worst offender in scripting was SH2?)

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

Sure there are things missing, half the control room crew on fast dives are not even there (though the sounds are thanks to DBSM),

This is the very first thing that pissed me off about SH5... the first thing i did in the campaign was head for deep water and crash dive... In ubisofts trailer we see men running to their stations, all heading forward lots of activity and shouting and oh my lord the poo is hitting the fan lets get this boat under now! sort of feeling... but what we got in the release version was pretty much the exact opposite.

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

however, show me a game that gives this much detail (getting better all the time) with virtually free missions. I can't compare this to SH4 or 3.

Microsoft flight simulator X

again, i think submarine simulations could take a lot from flight sims.

i have recently downloaded a B-17 and a P-51 mustang from the wings of power series, and unless you run a check list and read the manual and actually learn what each one of a dozen switches do, why they do what they do and how... you arent getting that plane off the virtual ground

in that sense silent hunter 5 is a game... it is not an accurate simulation.

non of the silent hunter versions have been simulations. perhaps they were simulations on some level, but i would hesitate to call silent hunter 3,4 or 5 a true "simulation"

perhaps these subsims are more accurately called "emulations" in that they attempt to replicate or imitate a real life experience at a lower level of detail than a simulation would.

theoretically a true simulation would potentially involve the player's interaction with almost every switch, lever, dial, gauge, button, valve and knob aboard the u-boat, and the functions of those items would all be accurately modeled and have realistic effects on game play.

i for one do not desire or expect that much depth of simulation from my subsims as you are playing the commander - and as such you are the decision maker, the brain... not the actual button masher, not the actual person who would interface with these controls.

i think for most players of the silent hunter series who have been fans since the mid 1990s... and subsimmers who have played sub sims since the 1980s or earlier... silent hunter 5 is just too radical a departure from what we have spent decades mastering.

then again, i am one man and this is the opinion of one person... im sure there are those who agree completely just as well as there are those who think i am crazy.

[Trevally.]

I stopped reading when you said you missed a UI with dials.

Could it be that only players who put in the required reading and research into the mods that have been made will enjoy this sim

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Trevally.

I stopped reading when you said you missed a UI with dials.

Could it be that only players who put in the required reading and research into the mods that have been made will enjoy this sim

then you missed the point

I understand that there are mods which provide you with round dials etc

the point of the post is that there is something Silent Hunter 5 lacks

let me put it this way

playing silent hunter 5 is like being married to a beautiful wife

but she is dumb as a box of rocks and cant hold a conversation.

now... if all you wanted to do was screw (sink 50,000 tons per patrol) that would be ok

but there is something of substance that SH5 has been missing since day one... and i have yet to precisely put my finger on whatever it is that she lacks.

i think what players want is something believable, customizable, historically accurate, and that simulates the reality of the submariners situation

i think what game developers have gotten into the habit of giving those players is lots of fast paced blowing stuff up.

[finchOU]

I hear what you are saying Golden Rivet....I too agree that the whole Silent hunter series lacks being a true definition of a simulation. There are so many "little" immersion killers in this 'game' that its hard to play for long periods of time IMHO. Tho I too love the MODed transporter to station...I too would rather see myself walking to that station. The role playing elements are so small an repetitive it's a wonder why they even added them at all...because I think they actually take away from the immersion over time. I think patrols should be boring ...i want to be excited to see a ship....it just doesn't happen. It just feels like I'm going through the motions (tho random secondary missions help a lot in OHII). But as gap filler between action I wanted to see more Navy/ship traditional stuff that is just not there. Random breakdowns with realistic repair times (or having to end the patrol early due to breakdown).....functioning enigma machine (not saying I want to translate every message.... but it would be a nice departure from the status quo), Officer dinner (read: once a day) discussing state of the boat and crew (reports). Can somebody make some damn "splash" curtains for the bunks?? this kills me as this is your only privacy on a ship let alone a sub. Show crew working on loading of external torpedoes. I actually didn't mind the crew management aspect of SH3...minus the ability to create watch crews and shifts. I do like the penalty of not resting your crew. Food remaining aboard cook? ability to halt ships and board early war..... signal lamp anyone?? victory pennants (a la AOD). Docking crew on deck to throw/receive lines? Anyway....sorry this turned into a wishlist.

[RustySubmarine]

I agree to some of Golden Rivet's comments about all the Silent Hunter series not actually being a proper Simulator. I personally think that if Microsoft had produced Silent Hunter instead of Ubisoft, then it would have been a completely different box of tricks. I have been an avid player of Microsoft Train Simulator since it came out in 2002 and still play it. Thanks to the trainsim community MSTS has improved no end and still has a huge following world wide. Microsoft was in the forefront of simulation programmes for the PC with their first very successful Flight Simulator, then MSTS. A new version of MSTS was in the pipeline until Microsoft pulled the plug on making simulation games, which would have been on par with FSFX if it had been allowed to continue. Instead we now have Rail Simulator 2013, which graphically is better than MSTS but is lacking in terms of correct signalling and realistic playability.
I think Ubisoft jumped on the Simulation bandwagon after the success of Microsoft, but the Silent Hunter series was not actually a proper simulation compared to FS & TS.
I have all versions of Silent Hunter and play SH3 more than SH5, because of the brilliant super mod GWX Gold, which really makes it as good as it can get. I would like to see one big supermod for SH5 come to fruition because although there are now lots of mods for SH5, some of them are difficult to get to work for people who are not so computer literate, because a lot of the mods need certain files altered to get them to work, such as TDW interface mods which I am still unable to fathom out to get them JSGME ready before installing them. I am using one of the earlier interface mods for SH5 which is a big improvement on the stock interface, but not on par with the one from The Dark Wraith, which I can't get to work because of having to alter some of the files. A little bit beyond me to get to grips with. Yes I have followed the tutorials and watched the videos, but I still can't get the hang of how to change things.
One complete GWX sort of mod that can be installed as an exe would be much better for everyone. Whether this will eventually happen, I don't know, but it would make things more straight forward to install and would probably make SH5 as enjoyable as SH3, maybe that much better because of the improved graphics of SH5.

[Trevally.]

Guys each to their own....

All I am saying is for every complaint about SH5 not being this or that - I can name a mod and/or setting that will fix that (other than SailorSteves complaints).
Some never get over their first love

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Guys each to their own....

All I am saying is for every complaint about SH5 not being this or that - I can name a mod and/or setting that will fix that (other than SailorSteves complaints).
Some never get over their first love

is there a mod to remove the horrid story line? and a mod to correct the gamey voice acting with the correct German nautical terminology? finally is there a way to correct the lengthy pauses in each phrase?

i really enjoyed Silent Hunter II

until SHIII came along and changed it all... but ubi delivered what they advertised... they did not do that with SH5.

[Trevally.]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

is there a mod to remove the horrid story line? and a mod to correct the gamey voice acting with the correct German nautical terminology? finally is there a way to correct the lengthy pauses in each phrase?

Ok Ok... (Mental note: SaliorSteve's and GoldenRivits)

i really enjoyed Silent Hunter II

Me too

ubi delivered what they advertised... they did not do that with SH5.

http://forums.ubi.com/forumdisplay.p...ilent-Hunter-5

[V13dweller]

Before I found Subsim, I finished the Story mode without anymods, the whole thing, even with the unrealistically high amounts of cargo that had to be sunk, and I enjoyed every bit of it.

Mods have just added more to a good game.

<Is ready for and expects any objections to this response>

Should I prepare to be branded an outcast?

[Dogfish40]

I think everyone has made truthful comments about this. I for one did mention in my previous post that SH3 and SH4 were still playable (and I do). I think it's true what GoldenRivet said about SH3 being (in one way) easier to immerse himself and make up your own storyline.
The two are quite different in terms of immersion. I cannot say that I don't get bored of asking the chief about his wife, and I rarely do. So, I walk around the ship doing what I think a Kaluen should be doing between contacts.
The finer things about SH5 I think have to be felt. With the right mod set, there is no other game in this series that comes close visually. If it were just down to gaming, there are plenty of others that I play for strategy and have hours of fun with that. I am suprised that they were able to even get the idea of this game on the shelfs. If this game came out of ubisoft perfect, we wouldn't have seen it for twenty years. As it stands, taking into account the number of data files (including what is packed in the exe.file), it's a wonder this game even came out. The idea was tremendous! How in heck did they expect to actually step up from SH3 and 4 to a boat that you could walk around (the whole boat this time) with full animation, talk to your crew vitually, have the big world map with all the cities and bases, then make sure all the stars are in the right place, that theTDC didn't send the torpedoes to the north pole...well, I'll stop there. The sub is a little more complex (I think anyway) than a plane as well. I have played a few flight sims and they are indeed very real, or can be. I didn't ever expect SH5 to be as good as it is though, (modded). And, the game is still growing thanks to the modders.
Anyway, it'll be quite awhile till I get bored of this one, thanks to Trev, TDW, Sober just to name a few (there are so many)....
Rock on, Gute Jagd
Good Discussion!
D40