Boeing 787 grounded

[Skybird]

NTSB has released it's first interim report, together with 100 pages of documenting material.

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/2...787_3-7-13.pdf

http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hi...TOKEN=67900912

They still are fishing in muddy water.

The fire in Boston took them fire brigade 100 minutes to extinguish. The ventilating system that was designed in the Dreamliner to especially ventilate smoke in case of fire out, to failed the intention. The needed emergency valves were taken out by the failing electricity system. Clever design -

It seems the list of questions does not get worked down and answered, but gets longer and longer.

German TÜV, has this to say about cars: the more electronics they include, the more often they need to get repaired, no matter the manufacturer. Simple empirical fact from the homeland of solid car making.

[HundertzehnGustav]

the more parts are in a system, the more parts can fail.
yea, but its so funkeh!

Meh.

I am looking to buy an old, simple car that i could mend myself, or at least do some basic maintenance on it without electrocuting myself, or wiping out the software that runs that car...

Peugeot 205 or somesuch.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Skybird

German TÜV, has this to say about cars: the more electronics they include, the more often they need to get repaired, no matter the manufacturer. Simple empirical fact from the homeland of solid car making.

Mechanical issues are most common problems with cars.
Electronics is for governing the engine and so on and if designed in right way adds to reliability and allows optimal preference.
Also is the last thing to fail contrary to mechanical devices.
No.... old cars could be easer to tinker with but had been not reliable and very wasteful.

[Skybird]

According to TÜV, DEKRA and GTÜ, electrical failures were topping the list of reasons to visit the garage in 2012 - once again, one must say. The closest mechanical reason for garage visits were failing brakes.

The more electrical components are build into cars, the higher the probability for them needing to make unplanned pit stops. Older models with less electronics scored better here.

Mind you, we do not talk about a car that is running since long with a car fresh from factors, we talk about models independently from the time their cars already have rolled outside the factory.

My father just has bought himself a new car, second hand. The salesman confirmed it also, my father is not hightech guy and does not like a thousand blinking lights and computer gimmicks in car, he does not know how to use them and finds them distracting (me too). The salesman said: "The more electrical gimmicks, the more primadonna you get."

Couldn't put it any better myself.

Back to the Nightmareliner.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Skybird

According to TÜV, DEKRA and GTÜ, electrical failures were topping the list of reasons to visit the garage in 2012 - once again, one must say. The closest mechanical reason for garage visits were failing brakes.

You see you have all backward again.
The reason for high reliability in today's engines is the electronics.
Electrical problems are mostly due to bad wiring.
But yeah..real men drive 4l v12 cars with 100hp.

Back to the Nightmareliner.

Problems....

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MH

You see you have all backward again.
The reason for high reliability in today's engines is the electronics.
Electrical problems are mostly due to bad wiring.

Don't discuss with me - talk to the numbers. 2012 the above organisations checked and certified over 8 million cars in Germany alone. Show us that their lists and counts are wrong. Electrical problems caused roughly 25% of all garage visits. Second place was brakes with 19 or 20%. Also: the share of garages repairs due to electric problems is constantly climbing since the late 80s or early 90s. Electrics are the most common reason for needing to go to the garage since many years, and the share of electrical failures is growing and growing. This is a trend that is independent from car manufacturer (brand or nation).

The more electrical gimmicks a car has, the more sensible it is. In an older Peugeot of friends of mine, a shortcut in electric window movers (moisture, probably) caused the deregulation of some function in the bingiter. The motor did not start, or failed in mid-ride. Because of the window.

I think ADAC, world'S biggest automobile association, by trend says the same, they do their own tests, checks and statistics, but no certifications like DEKRA, TÜV and the like (certification of cars is obligatory in Germany every two years).

But yeah..real men drive 4l v12 cars with 100hp.

Never said that. Do not own that. Do not even get your point. Rethorics, I assume.

I don't even have a car. Saves me an awfully lot of money.

[HundertzehnGustav]

the point is "big volume, many cylinders, little output, a lot of pollution"
the point is: old cars suck, and you guys have not understood that electronics make the new cars better


MY point is: if the new cars had no electronics, they would also suck.