The future of Submarine simulations

[Julhelm]

I would be perfectly happy with something along the lines of Seawolf or Red Storm Rising being given a graphics and interface overhaul, like what Xenonauts have done with X-Com. For WW2 subs model it on Silent Service gameplay with a touch of Pirates!

The thing is, any indie sub game that can stand any chance of getting through development and actually ship some copies will have to go back to where we began and build from there because the budget to match even SH3 graphics, amount of content or systems fidelity is not going to happen.

The only reason there are 3rd party devs developing hi-fidelity modules for FSX and DCS is because both those engines have evolved over decades of shipped iterations and even then noone knows if the hi-fidelity DCS modules will actually turn a profit with the magnitude more work they require compared to those in FSX. And this is considering these guys do not have to develop physics, campaign or other gameplay-critical systems from scratch because it's all there.

No such engine framework exists for the sub community so anything would have to be made from scratch. Even if middleware like Unity were used, all those systems would have to be developed from scratch. There's simply more to developing a sim than platform fidelity alone. So IMO it is not realistic to match or exceed what has been done with SH4/5 unless you have a budget like UBI.

[Sonarman]

How about approaching Ilan Papini developer of the Virtual Sailor series as tonibamestre suggested with a Kickstarter proposal for a purely multi-player (up to 24 players) game built upon Virtual Sailor/Vehicle Simulator. He would not develop any ai routines (not his speciality anyway) but rather take on the easier task of modelling ships systems and weaponry: hydrophones, ASDIC, torpedo station , gunnery, damage control etc. As a purely multi-player game it would be just as easy to have surface fleet battles as well as sub/anti-sub actions.

Hello subsim heroes!
Such a great ideas here, just want to say...i would be more than happy to donate or pay for a real open source subsim from you guys than to pay for another miserable ubisoft project whose goal is only to make money.

[tonibamestre]

Vehicle Simulator is an excellent multipurpose platform and,well, I m not modelling talented but been told that 3D models, vessels or sceneries are quite easyer to build than into other Sims.

I really think it well worth a TRY !

[BigBANGtheory]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

I would be perfectly happy with something along the lines of Seawolf or Red Storm Rising being given a graphics and interface overhaul, like what Xenonauts have done with X-Com. For WW2 subs model it on Silent Service gameplay with a touch of Pirates!

The thing is, any indie sub game that can stand any chance of getting through development and actually ship some copies will have to go back to where we began and build from there because the budget to match even SH3 graphics, amount of content or systems fidelity is not going to happen.

The only reason there are 3rd party devs developing hi-fidelity modules for FSX and DCS is because both those engines have evolved over decades of shipped iterations and even then noone knows if the hi-fidelity DCS modules will actually turn a profit with the magnitude more work they require compared to those in FSX. And this is considering these guys do not have to develop physics, campaign or other gameplay-critical systems from scratch because it's all there.

No such engine framework exists for the sub community so anything would have to be made from scratch. Even if middleware like Unity were used, all those systems would have to be developed from scratch. There's simply more to developing a sim than platform fidelity alone. So IMO it is not realistic to match or exceed what has been done with SH4/5 unless you have a budget like UBI.

I'll pretty much agree with all of that.

What I would add though is that PC gamers/owners on the whole do not appreciate the effort required to develop current software but at the same time haven't invested 1000's £ $ etc in hardware to sold on something that doesn't utilise it.

What I find interesting is that the gaming community is spanning ever wider age groups due to owners of the first home computers sticking with their hobby. Older gamers I think are more naturally drawn to the simulator, less inclined into software piracy and are prepared to pay for what they get. Sooner or later we will see games produced and marketed for this gamer and SubSims tick a fair few boxes

[tommo8993]

What if we(subsim) started a kick starter page for a highly detailed game concept. Then appealed for a developer. We put out word on all the gaming sites. Sure some developer would pick it up. So the developer has money waiting for them. I would pay...

[PL_Andrev]

Originally Posted by tommo8993

What if we(subsim) started a kick starter page for a highly detailed game concept. Then appealed for a developer. We put out word on all the gaming sites. Sure some developer would pick it up. So the developer has money waiting for them. I would pay...

Look at the UBI: players have suggestedseveral times with mods:
- playable warships,
- other submarines (Japanese, British mods)
- and finally Destroyer Command 2 mode

What was the result?
- extra paid patch for SH4 (1.5)
- a big step back with Silent Hunter 5

There are no chance to release good & hard submarine sim now. But there are more interesting concepts on the game market based at the Navy world. Maybe we'll find something better than SH series.
No so hard sim, but more playable game than SH series.

[Sonarman]

Originally Posted by tommo8993

What if we(subsim) started a kick starter page for a highly detailed game concept. Then appealed for a developer. We put out word on all the gaming sites. Sure some developer would pick it up. So the developer has money waiting for them. I would pay...

Like maybe these guys... on the Unity forums a while back Subsim super modder Hans Witteman (uboat HAHD) had a very interesting response to his team's post on a mooted subsim project...

"Hi Hans,

My main question for you is there a business plan and any available funding for this project?

I know the original lead programmer and designer, Bill Becker, of the very first Silent Hunter and he is available (around 25 years of experience and about your age). The lead artist is also a good friend of ours but he's mostly tied up with a 9 to 5 job but certainly available for your reference. I am also an expert in Unity, with 20 years professional game experience (primarily programming) and I'm currently working on an underwater game and I could answer most technical questions you have. We both come from a heavy simulations background, myself having worked on Gunship 2000 and F-15 Strike Eagle III back in the day, and Bill has worked on a ridiculous number of simulation titles as that is his specialty.

I went through most of your site and can tell that you are extremely passionate and serious about this project. If you can let us know more about your background (commercial projects are of greatest interest) and your team members we could probably put together quite a powerful team. We have access to many of the developers from the old MicroProse Software days, including business development. For a AAA game you need serious resources in business, marketing and distribution so we want to make sure you have the whole picture covered and how we might best work together."

Don Goddard


Presumably the artist of which they speak is the legendary Kim Biscoe who worked on Pirates! Gold, Silent Service II, Great Naval Battles 1,2,3 &4, Silent Hunter, Silent Hunter II and on the radar & sonar screens of Destroyer Command as well as many other sims.


Go to agree with Antar here too this time we really need playable surface units included, even if it's purely a multiplayer game with no AI.

[tommo8993]

If the site sets up a kickstarter page and then appeals to a game developer or even with the money raised hire a developer. A good developer i'm sure we could get what we wanted.