What 'Lincoln' misses and another Civil War film gets right

[Bilge_Rat]

Hey guys, remember the Civil War has been over for 150 years. I am pretty sure "The South will rise again!" is just a bumper sticker.

I had read a lot on the war. Yes, the N-word was pretty much prevalent back then and about as inoffensive as the term African-American is now.

Yes, the prevailing attitude in both North and South was that African-Americans were inferior to whites.

Yes, Lincoln had no particular desire to end slavery when he came in to office and until 1862, would have been quite willing to keep slavery to maintain the Union.

However, you can also see his thinking evolved and by the summer of 1863, he was convinced that the war had to stand for more than just state rights. He was convinced that ending slavery once and for all was necessary to both justify the cost in human lives and to allow the US to go forward. All his cabinet were opposed to the Emancipation Proclamation, all thought it was political suicide. Even Lincoln thought he would probably lose the 1864 election if he went ahead. At the time, it was a very bold, even radical political decision.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Yes, the prevailing attitude in both North and South was that African-Americans were inferior to whites.

Yes, Lincoln had no particular desire to end slavery when he came in to office and until 1862, would have been quite willing to keep slavery to maintain the Union.

However, you can also see his thinking evolved and by the summer of 1863, he was convinced that the war had to stand for more than just state rights. He was convinced that ending slavery once and for all was necessary to both justify the cost in human lives and to allow the US to go forward. All his cabinet were opposed to the Emancipation Proclamation, all thought it was political suicide. Even Lincoln thought he would probably lose the 1864 election if he went ahead. At the time, it was a very bold, even radical political decision.

Oh, absolutely. Lincoln's views on slavery may have been that emancipation was the way to go, but the move to actually emancipate was purely political and calculated for effect. The man was a master politician.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Oh, absolutely. Lincoln's views on slavery may have been that emancipation was the way to go, but the move to actually emancipate was purely political and calculated for effect. The man was a master politician.

If he was only interested in getting re-elected, he would not have pushed through the EP. No one in the North wanted to die just to free slaves.

He was a very smart politician in that he knew he could only issue the EP after a victory so it would not look like a desparate move. He had the EP in his pocket for months, but only went ahead after Antietam.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

If he was only interested in getting re-elected, he would not have pushed through the EP. No one in the North wanted to die just to free slaves.

He was a very smart politician in that he knew he could only issue the EP after a victory so it would not look like a desparate move. He had the EP in his pocket for months, but only went ahead after Antietam.

But the foreign powers did. Lincoln knew that emancipation would keep England from intervening and pushing for a truce, which he could absolutely not have. That would have guaranteed that he would not be reelected. Foreign powers wouldn't dare interfere with a war with the declared end of abolition, and so he waited until he had the victories make it a credible gesture that would strengthen his political position, both abroad and domestically.

[Bilge_Rat]

Ah yes, England, forgot about them.

Yes, he did do a good job keeping Europeans from getting involved.

[Armistead]

People forget how the war started. The govt got taxes by imports.The south paid about 90% of the nations total tariffs in 1860. The new Republican party wanted a strong national government over state rights, because it promoted northern industrialization. The Republican party simply wanted to overtax the south for their own benefit, as if the south didn't already contribute almost all the taxes. This was Lincoln's platform and it led to much conflict. It wasn't about slavery, it was about taking all the money out of the south for their own greed. With most new states being free, it assured the continual rape of the south paying all the taxes for northern capitalist. so the south seceded

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Ah yes, England, forgot about them.

Yes, he did do a good job keeping Europeans from getting involved.

Lincoln was a student of history. He understood that the American Revolution was ultimate successful due to foreign recognition. He also understood that the only real way the south could win that war was through the same. It was the big, looming concern for the early part of that war.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Lincoln was a student of history. He understood that the American Revolution was ultimate successful due to foreign recognition. He also understood that the only real way the south could win that war was through the same. It was the big, looming concern for the early part of that war.

That damn blockade, if not for that we would still be whistling "Dixie".