Big Bang: Is there room for God?

[Sammi79]

Originally Posted by Skybird

sorry, no, you are wrong there. The nothingness referred to when saying "Big Bang and before things existed", and before even space-time existed, is the absence of things and the absence of all and anything. Even the absence of vacuum. A nothingness that is so total and complete in meaning and span of "nothing", that about this nothingness cannot even be said it existed. A double negation, if you want. It is impossible to attach qualities, features or descriptions to this, and it is even impossible to say what it is not , because dpoing so would result in efforts and temrs being part of the existing universe and space-time that we experience. Human mind just cannot embrace the total lack of any conception like this. Even the laws of maths as we know and understand them, mean nothing there anymore. Nothing=absence of anything, even the meaning of the words "absense", "of" and "anything". Not even calling nothingness a nothingness makes sense anymore. We do not talk of a physical vacuum - a vacuum actually would be something.

That's my point exactly - this absolute nothing cannot be defined nor analysed in any way due to its nature or absence of it. And like god, there is no evidence this absolute nothing ever existed. And if it did, well it would be something by virtue of its existence, thus defying its own nature or absence of it.
Or to put it another way if it does exist, it might exist all around us at once but as it is actually nothing at all, it is not detectable and we are distracted by the somethings, even were the somethings not there we still would not be able to find nothing.

So the questions about why or how everything from nothing are meaningless unless you attribute something to that nothing first.

If absolute nothing could exist, then it would be all that there isn't, no?

Oh smeggin' hell this is getting like Red Dwarf!
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home for breakfast.

Regards,
Sam.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Sammi79

If absolute nothing could exist, then it would be all that there isn't, no?

No. It has no non-existence. Nor has it not a non-existence. Nor has it an existence, nor has it not an existence.

In the very moment you try to dress it in words then already springs to life what exists, and so it is no nothingness anymore.

In the beginning there was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were made by him, and nothing was made without him.

Don't worry, I have not turned into a bible-swinger suddenly. I just like the poetry in this wording. It illustrates also the point I try to make: that the word already is enough to make any conception of "non-existence" or "nothingness" void, misleading, pointless, and unimaginable.

[Armistead]

There is no such thing as nothing, nothing is something and scientist agree what they refer to as "nothing" still contains unseen particles and energy.

The problem will always be, when they do figure out an energy source, they're always left with another energy source to figure out.

The issue for me still remains cause and effect, yet for cause and effect to work, a first cause must exist, which will never be found within physical laws, which does open up the possibility for a cause outside our physical understanding.

Course, if God exist, I'm still not sure how we would define him or that religion should define him. Seems if God wanted to express
himself, he would've made himself clear, instead of numerous religions that have caused nothing but harm.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by Armistead

There is no such thing as nothing, nothing is something and scientist agree what they refer to as "nothing" still contains unseen particles and energy.

The problem will always be, when they do figure out an energy source, they're always left with another energy source to figure out.

The issue for me still remains cause and effect, yet for cause and effect to work, a first cause must exist, which will never be found within physical laws, which does open up the possibility for a cause outside our physical understanding.

Course, if God exist, I'm still not sure how we would define him or that religion should define him. Seems if God wanted to express
himself, he would've made himself clear, instead of numerous religions that have caused nothing but harm.

Im afraid that truly thinking about the universe will result in severe mind-imploding effects.

I watched an episode of "through the wormhole" with Morgan Freeman and it confirmed something id been thinking about lately. Quantum theory and mechanics hasp proven (or at least explained) not only that one thing can be in two places at once, but that things can appear from nothing, or at least what we understand to be nothing. The number of these ghost particles flashing in and out of existence number beyond true comprehension and the speed at which they appear and vanish boggles the mind too. So does the Big Bang and the mind stretching forces behind it. It really is very hard to comprehend absolute nothingness. Its hard to understand theoretical physics, too. And because we cant hope to explain everything about the universe, god still lives on. I believe that you dont need some Divine being to create anything. If anything the divine being is the universe itself. The belief in God complicates things immensely. it has held back scientific theory for thousands of years, and still does so today with the creationist theories attempting to be taught in schools.

Reality tends to be a hundred times weirder than science fiction, and its hopeless to explain everything. In fact, The Universe is so vast, So powerful, so odd, that we can barely comprehend its scale. but we come up with these numbers, like septillions, google, a googleplex, infinity, but we dont comprehend it because its so enormous. Try to comprehend even a googleplex. A google is a 1 followed by a million zeroes. That number represents something, a quantity. A trillion is a 1 followed by only 15 zeroes. now imagine a googleplex, a googleplex is a one followed by a GOOGLE zeroes. a 1 followed by a trillino zeroes is almost impossible to understand, but a 1 followed by a GOOGLE zeroes, no way. my mind died out at imagining anything that could represent a google, and now theyre trying to make me imagine a googleplex, a number that i cant possibly comprehend the scale of. Simply writing it down would take gargantuan amounts of space. Infinity is easy to understand because it cant be represented by anything real. a googleplex could. it can be written down, assuming we could fit it some where, probably in a computer.

Even just 3,972,789 zeroes on MS word in 12 font (i used copy and paste so it only took me a minute to do this) is 1201 pages. 1201 pages of zeroes (excluding a single 1). were not even remotely close to a fraction of a percent of a googleplex and its already 1201 pages.


So to comprehend what scientists discover is quite a mind trip. But that doesnt necessarily mean it had to be because of an all powerful being.

[Takeda Shingen]

Oh good, another religion bashing thread.

Oh god, another religion bashing thread.

Thats a prayer of a quote

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

I altered your text in my quote, Takeda.

You sure did, squiggy.