Wikileaks' Julian Assange seeks Supreme Court hearing

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Vendor

What is true in the case of Assange, it is that when he was here last, so messed the Swedish prosecutor's office to take him to court, and Assange left the country, that is a legal mistake, that Sweden did not choose to interview him on neutral half of the field is very prestigious.

When I know that "justice" is being hijacked and abused by an extremely powerful enemy-to-the-death in order to secure control of my physical person, I would jump bail, too. The Swedish allowed the "justice" system to get abused for political opportunism and by being pushed by a very powerful foreign nation.

Assange pissed a huge empire and stripped the regime down to its underpants. The US will never forgive for being shown like that in public. All that dirty laundry of theirs was meant to be kept secret, forever. And then came Assange and pulled them into the spotlight. Scandal! Crime...! Treason...!!!

the only scandals lay in some of the information revealed, and in the fact that the wide public does not draw consequences form this, and those responsible for these things are still in power, sometimes even got re-elected meanwhile. THAT is the real scandal.

Shoot the messenger, ignore the message. That's the name of the game.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

When I know that "justice" is being hijacked and abused by an extremely powerful enemy-to-the-death in order to secure control of my physical person, I would jump bail, too. The Swedish allowed the "justice" system to get abused for political opportunism and by being pushed by a very powerful foreign nation.

Assange pissed a huge empire and stripped the regime down to its underpants. The US will never forgive for being shown like that in public. All that dirty laundry of theirs was meant to be kept secret, forever. And then came Assange and pulled them into the spotlight. Scandal! Crime...! Treason...!!!

the only scandals lay in some of the information revealed, and in the fact that the wide public does not draw consequences form this, and those responsible for these things are still in power, sometimes even got re-elected meanwhile. THAT is the real scandal.

Shoot the messenger, ignore the message. That's the name of the game.

So you support Assange and what he did?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

So you support Assange and what he did?

I support the cause. And not for sympathy with the man, I do not like him, not personally, and not by the way he dealt with people working for him in his organisation. He is no pleasant personality, it seems. But our governments are so rotten, corrupt and criminal, how could I not support revealing their dirty laundry? I am so serious over this that I cancelled my Paypal and Visacard accounts when both companies bent to US pressure to isolate Wikipedia back then. Blind loyalty to a group of gangsters, or loyalty to a country that goes wrong just because it is that country, has never been my thing. If things stink, then things stink.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I support the cause. And not for sympathy with the man, I do not like him, not personally, and not by the way he dealt with people working for him in his organisation. He is no pleasant personality, it seems. But our governments are so rotten, corrupt and criminal, how could I not support revealing their dirty laundry? I am so serious over this that I cancelled my Paypal and Visacard accounts when both companies bent to US pressure to isolate Wikipedia back then. Blind loyalty to a group of gangsters, or loyalty to a country that goes wrong just because it is that country, has never been my thing. If things stink, then things stink.

Fair enough...we are all entitled to our opinion but I'm not about to leave my country for one as 'clean' as Ecuador...no thanks.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Fair enough...we are all entitled to our opinion but I'm not about to leave my country for one as 'clean' as Ecuador...no thanks.

Well, that was Assange's decision and must not be of any concern to me. He just tries to escape life-long imprisonment in a US jail. and I think these are not as pleasant as German ones as well.

Online life can be a bitch without Visa or Paypal btw. Have to ask others now, when there is no trustworthy alternative to these two options, but some transfer needs to be done. But it is rare.

Yes, there is a life possible without credit cards.

[Gerald]

Sooner or later .... or if I should be straight, then are a change in the Assange case, and all this stops to focus, so .... and Sky, will be able to have their cards in peace

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Well, that was Assange's decision and must not be of any concern to me. He just tries to escape life-long imprisonment in a US jail. and I think these are not as pleasant as German ones as well.

Online life can be a bitch without Visa or Paypal btw. Have to ask others now, when there is no trustworthy alternative to these two options, but some transfer needs to be done. But it is rare.

Yes, there is a life possible without credit cards.

Yeah like picking up a shovel or serving burgers, like the rest of us have to do.

A real job, but something tells me an agitator like him only thrives as long as he is seen as a victim/hero, and given a free ride. A man of his personality is most likely unable to hold a real job anyways.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Well, that was Assange's decision and must not be of any concern to me. He just tries to escape life-long imprisonment in a US jail. and I think these are not as pleasant as German ones as well.

Online life can be a bitch without Visa or Paypal btw. Have to ask others now, when there is no trustworthy alternative to these two options, but some transfer needs to be done. But it is rare.

Yes, there is a life possible without credit cards.

Send me your Paypal and card details and I'll look after them for you

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

So you support Assange and what he did?

Pardon ?

What he did? Who committed the crimes uncovered ?
He did what all free journalists of the world would have done, who stand up for free press, journalism and freedom of speech.
Not that anyone in the Fox- and CNN-brainwashed USA knows what that is or so it seems.
Maybe they should have shot the journalists during the Watergate scandal ?

A government with its secret services committing such crimes in cold blood, does such callous cover-ups while misleading and fooling their own people, is the real traitor and unpatriotic

[Jimbuna]

Ah, right...we're all entitled to an opinion and a viewpoint I believe.

[Catfish]

Hello Jim,

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Ah, right...we're all entitled to an opinion and a viewpoint I believe.

Well, thanks you for your calm answer, i could almost read the *sigh* after it . I guess i went over the top with my post, however .. if a nation or its government conducts a crime, in the best intention or not (ahem), do you think it should rather cover that up than say sorry ?

"A democracy has to defend itself", but if it gets again its own and international law ?
"Right or wrong my country" is also an often-heard proverb, but ...

The Pentagon Papers: "When The New York Times began publishing its series, President Richard Nixon became incensed. His words to National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger included "People have gotta be put to the torch for this sort of thing..." and "Let's get the son-of-a-bitch in jail.""

So you think this would be the right thing to do ? The New York times was too big it seems, but maybe Assange with his now worldwide support is not.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

[joea]

Assange might be, probably is a a** personally, surprised many feminist friends and colleagues have turned against him as he seems to be a bit of a jerk with women.

However, why are so many eager to defend governments and big corporations here? Why should they not also be held accountable for their actions and have some transparency forced on them?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hello Jim,

Well, thanks you for your calm answer, i could almost read the *sigh* after it . I guess i went over the top with my post, however .. if a nation or its government conducts a crime, in the best intention or not (ahem), do you think it should rather cover that up than say sorry ?

"A democracy has to defend itself", but if it gets again its own and international law ?
"Right or wrong my country" is also an often-heard proverb, but ...

The Pentagon Papers: "When The New York Times began publishing its series, President Richard Nixon became incensed. His words to National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger included "People have gotta be put to the torch for this sort of thing..." and "Let's get the son-of-a-bitch in jail.""

So you think this would be the right thing to do ? The New York times was too big it seems, but maybe Assange with his now worldwide support is not.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

Hi Catfish

No problem mate, as I said earlier, we're all entitled to an opinion and a viewpoint

TBH we could debate the wrights and wrongs of many an individual and or country from past events till the cows come home....I'd rather stay on the thread topic in this case but readilly admit two or more wrongs don't make a right.

IMHO Assange (from #12)

Agreed....if charges have been brought and extradition requested he must go back to where the alleged crime or crimes took place to be tried by said countries judicial system.

I'm in no way making a judgement on his guilt or otherwise.

Also (#43)

Assange has voluntarily reduced his freedom to act by jumping bail and seeking refuge in a political mess that ensures he cannot leave a single building. This is of his own making.

I honestly don't see what defence he has after the way he has acted and I've yet to see any statement from the UK or Swedish government stating he will be extradited to the US.

What he is currently hiding from in the UK are sexual related allegations but he is happy to widen the scope to include all and sundry in an attempt to protect himself from what may well be far more serious charges in the future.

One step at a time, if it turns out he is a sex offender then he should face the consequences like any other person would.

His options are fast running out and his actions IMHO are doing nothing more than stacking the odds against himself.

Regards
jimbuna

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

One step at a time, if it turns out he is a sex offender then he should face the consequences like any other person would.

Indeed. But the question is whether this would be a fair trial that indeed focusses on just accusations that have been forwarded in an honest intention of self-defense by the victim. And this is what has to be doubted, and very much so. I say it is accusations constructed to bring him behind bars due to Wikileaks. And this easily could mean as well that all "evidence" and "witnesses reports" presented at court, are forged as well. Governments do such things.

If this were true, than this means that there is no fairness in any court procedure at all, and that Assange form all beginning on would not have the slightest chance to prove his innocence at court - the sentences is already decided while we sit here and discucss.

Western countries are no holy saints. They act with betrayal and bribery, pressure and lobbying in Third World countries all day in day out if it helps to make local decision.makers agree to their economical interests for resource exploitation contracts and getting rid of a local tribe of Indians for that first. And of course laws and treaties get formulated to let all this appear legal, and legal it is by the paper stuff indeed. Still it is a cheating plot, and is morally wrong, and betrayal.

Assange is an enemy of the state and persona non grata for several powerful players out there who simply seek revenge for what he did, and who want to crush him and see him behind bars forever to prevent him to ever head something like Wikileaks again. And to acchieve that, any plot, and lie, and secret service operation and any forged criminal accusations are acceptable to that. It is daily bread and butter for according government agencies to run operations like this. And this has to be taken into account. If he indeed committed rape in the meaning of the term, and it is guaranteed that any criminal persecution is focussed on that and is unaffected and sovereign from any attempt to manipulate it for political opportunistic intentions, then he should be bropught to court and get his sentence fpor thta rape indeed.

But we cannot be sure it is like this. We have reasons to believe that this is a plot to catch him, and holding him on the defense. We know the questionable nature of the charges, and the doubts about the claims of the socalled victim about their relation and her own relation to assange. There were many htings reported that did not fit together - and the noise of recent months successfully helped in letting these drift into the realms of a forgotten past.

Whether one wants it or not, politics play a role in all this. And thus the apparently obvious semblance should not be taken as obvious at all.

Recall the old principle of criminal investigation, these simple questions: who has a motive, who makes a net profit, who benefits? And immediately you have a long row of actors/factions standing in line who all may be involved as well - not just two women and one man in this case.

Strauss-Khan was involved in a serious process of decision making regarding some banking policies, decisions that likely would not come out the way the US wanted them to have. And he was taken out of the process by that plot. The timing was so striking that it immediately caught my suspicion, despite Strauss-Khan's reputation to be dog chasing women at every opportunity. The same alarm bell ringing back then I hear ringing in my head over the Assange "case".

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Skybird

When I know that "justice" is being hijacked and abused by an extremely powerful enemy-to-the-death in order to secure control of my physical person, I would jump bail, too. The Swedish allowed the "justice" system to get abused for political opportunism and by being pushed by a very powerful foreign nation.

Assange pissed a huge empire and stripped the regime down to its underpants. The US will never forgive for being shown like that in public. All that dirty laundry of theirs was meant to be kept secret, forever. And then came Assange and pulled them into the spotlight. Scandal! Crime...! Treason...!!!

the only scandals lay in some of the information revealed, and in the fact that the wide public does not draw consequences form this, and those responsible for these things are still in power, sometimes even got re-elected meanwhile. THAT is the real scandal.

Shoot the messenger, ignore the message. That's the name of the game.

Now it is a fact that it is about several things, including material that circulated, and that there was a focus on accusations that he was well aware, and it should be said that he got cold feet where they are allegations came to light after the UK and Sweden, which has a co-operation ... the decision to extradite him to Sweden, after the Supreme Court had told he, hence the decision as he was to go to some other "neutral" place.