Leaked Israeli Report Urges New Sanctions on Iran

[mapuc]

You are both right

I don't believe Iran would attack some other country with nuclear weapons, they know what would happen if they did.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I know what it means

The article I posted is the official- the one to the public

The one that Vendor posted is off the record-not for public audience

When thinking on Vendor's article I have difficult to believe that Israel is getting soft towards Iran's nuclear program.

I have for many years now heard the drums of war-that I'm beginning to believe it's drum without any sound.

Markus

Could be right but somehow I doubt it...past history tells us what ends Israel will go to for survival and a nuclear attack could well mean obliteration.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Could be right but somehow I doubt it...past history tells us what ends Israel will go to for survival and a nuclear attack could well mean obliteration.

Ohh Jim now I know why I couldn't erase my post, 'cause I had missed something in Vendors article.

I was so sure that the news about Israel getting soft had to be a "secret" story. But I saw that some official person from the government had confirmed it.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Ohh Jim now I know why I couldn't erase my post, 'cause I had missed something in Vendors article.

I was so sure that the news about Israel getting soft had to be a "secret" story. But I saw that some official person from the government had confirmed it.

Markus

Tis sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees

[mapuc]

If I had to chose I would say the article Vendor posted is correct-that's because I'm a 110 % non-violent person

I would rather believe that Israel is getting soft and give Iran some time.

Markus

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by mapuc

If I had to chose I would say the article Vendor posted is correct-that's because I'm a 110 % non-violent person

I would rather believe that Israel is getting soft and give Iran some time.

Markus

Israel will not act alone in this now, it's what I think, but it is obviously an advantage for them, that there is a strong opinion on what Iran is doing, while going to Iran in a reasonably foreseeable time, to do something with the "heavy weapons" against Israel or other countries.

[Skybird]

I think this report indicates something different. While Israel wanted to rally support over the past months, it did rally support indeed, but not against Iran, but against Israel. All this while Iran multiplied the number of centrifuges and is digging its program deeper and deeper into the mountains. I tend to think that Israel has no military means to reach them anymore without the US, and I also think that the US probably also cannot reach them anymore without using nukes in the megaton-range - and that is what even I have never suggested, I always talked of bunkerbusting only: softening up the soil over a subterranean installation by repeated hits with conventional bunker busters, hoping that this softening will add another couple of two or three meters for the main weapon to penetrate into the ground before it detonates.

Formally, the US has abandoned the developement of socalled mini-nukes, bombs below the 5 kt-mark and by design intended for bunker busting. However, what thy formally announced, and what they really do, is two things.

The problem is that any free-fall-bomb cannot penetreate any type of soil deeper than let'S say 12-13 meters. That is not enough to prevent a mini-nuke produzcing plenty of fallout, and deflecting the most of its blow not into the gorund to crack open a bunker, but into the empty air. Deeper penetration ranges of up to some 40 meters have been demonstrated - but only by rocket-motored projectiles on rails, travelling at I think 4000 mph or so.

Now consider that already years ago it was reported that Iran had started to move its installations into mountain tunnels and super-hardened bunkers, up to 120 meters deep. 120 meters of granite, rock, and whatever mountains are made of, plus them clever engineers having certainly considered blast escape tunnels and so on. Then the real bunker begins: steel-concrete, build with massive knowledge last but not least from the West.

Command-bunkers for Minuteman-missile silos were designed to withstand close-by detonations in the multi-megaton-range. Anyone here thinking you can impress them, damage, them, destroy them by using a conventional massive ordnance? Or former NORAD command in Cheyenne Mountain - taking it out by a conventional MOAB? Hardly.

I think the West has overplayed his cards, and that now the time has run out. They are out of reach, that simple. If now you want to destroy these installations, one would need to do it from within, and that would meanb what probably is an impossible war: boots on the ground, invasion, spoecial commandos, infiltrating the basis, demolitioning them from within. Chances I give that for sufficient success: 1%. And that is optimistic, I think.

I predict for the coming years that our wonderful leaders now will slowly start to softtalk on the issue, that they will lure us slowly into lending a nuclear Iran a hand as a sign of our good will, we will get familiarized with the prospect of nuclear weapons in Iran, and will be made to slowly accept and tolerate it.

Over this year, there were some reports, that were almost overseen and only were minor in the news papers, but I got one of them confirmed by one former pro for whom I have worked in the early nineties. The one news said that the Turks have seriously started to prepare to implement a nuclear weapon program. The other said that the Mursi government has confirmed a re-u-turn that was made already by Mubarak. Egypt has had a nuclear weapon program in the 60s and until the early 70s, then shut it down, and Mubarak even rejected to get nukes from the falling-apart Soviet Union after the fall. But before the revolution reached Egypt, he has revoked the nuclear weapon program, and the new Mursi government in all secrecy has confirmed that decision. I think the race already has started, and Syria is known to have been trying as well before Israel struck it some years ago.

Hey West, have fun everybody. You messed it up, now deal with the potentially self-destroying consequences. This nuclear arms race is a hundred times more dangerous, unpredictable and irrational, than the cold war ever was with the exception of Cuba at the height of the crisis.

And no, I do not think that we will make it through once again in one piece.

[Takeda Shingen]

I'm just praying that they don't take out the Edgar C. Hoover dam before we get a chance to locate it ourselves.