indication for a trojan infection

[Skybird]

Only payware Firewall and AntiVirus suites for me. Nobody can convince me that what they do for a fee is done for same effectiveness but for free by "free versions". Additionally using free malware scanners is recommended. I use Malwarebyte'S program, and SuperAntiMalware. Emsisoft's program also often gets recommended over here.

This year, the internet suites of Bit Defender and Kaspersky, F-Secure and G-Data score highest for recognition rates and cleaning, according to testzs in German computer magazines. Panda Cloud was rated okay for recognition, but moderate in cleaning, another Panda version there is which is even weak in recognition. Avast is found to be moderate only in recognition, and weak in cleaning, it is the one suite that has massively lost in this year's incarnation, they say by their results (it was one of the top contenders in past years). My Avira scores good in recognition and cleaning, but moderate only regarding performance (it takes long time to scan the HD).

Well, that says the test by German market leading computer magazine Chip. I sticked with Avira only for reasons of comfort, I already had the abo last year. If I would install brandnew a suite, i would go with BitDefender this year. In the tests it was the only one scoring top in all three categories recognition rate, cleaning, and performance.

Regarding my Zeus problem, none of these suites gives you really safe security. If you got a Zeus clone, and it is not a years-old incarnation (and how would you tell, there are several hundred thousands), there is a good chance that it is still there after the scanner says he "cleaned" it, so REINSTALL. It was not Avira finding it, it was Malwarebyte's Anti-Malware and SuperAntiMalware, btw (both can be had for free in their active scan versions). I would recommend to run active scans with both once a week.

[Dowly]

Hard to believe Avast! scored so poorly. Like I've said, I've used the (free ed.)
Avast! for years. I do a complete boot scan 1-2 a month and a more thorough
scan with Avast! and various anti-malware apps every 3 months or so. I haven't had
a single virus or malware in probably 2 years. Avast! always picks up bad websites
as I try to connect to them and automatically cuts the connection.

As for payware AV, my only experience is with F-Secure and I hated it. It was
slow and it leaked like hell. And just the other day, Crécy had problems starting
the Combat Mission: Commonwealth Forces add-on. Turns out his (payware)Norton
was for some reason blocking the executable.

[kiwi_2005]

I use to use Avast years ago and back then it was a very good free antivirus i dont know about now but i would presume it could only get better. The only thing that annoyed me was whenever a virus was found or an update was completed it scream out on the speakers about it. Not good when browsing then all a sudden YOUR ANTIVIRUS HAS BEEN UPDATED!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Hard to believe Avast! scored so poorly. Like I've said, I've used the (free ed.)
Avast! for years. I do a complete boot scan 1-2 a month and a more thorough
scan with Avast! and various anti-malware apps every 3 months or so. I haven't had
a single virus or malware in probably 2 years. Avast! always picks up bad websites
as I try to connect to them and automatically cuts the connection.

As for payware AV, my only experience is with F-Secure and I hated it. It was
slow and it leaked like hell. And just the other day, Crécy had problems starting
the Combat Mission: Commonwealth Forces add-on. Turns out his (payware)Norton
was for some reason blocking the executable.

Avast was a top contender until last year, but if you check over several years, you see that most internet suites go up and down and up and down in cycles which can have several year's lifespan.

From: Chip Magazine. Paste and copy did not work. Go here, and scroll down to the table. http://www.chip.de/artikel/Sicherhei..._55120663.html
the columns are entitled "Malware-Protection / Malware-Removing / Performance / Total "

[CaptainHaplo]

I am sorry, but for those of us in the security world, this entire discussion is a lesson in irony.

Data security doesn't start at your PC - it starts with the user.

While I know Skybird posted this to help others, I am going to point out a couple of mental choices that show why he is now in this situation - hopefully to help folks avoid bad decisions.

First - let us review one very important fact. If you never want to "get hacked" or "infected" from the web is to stay off of it entirely. So the moment you choose to get on the interwebz, your choosing to expose yourself. Antivirus/anti-spyware software are risk mitigation, not a guarantee.

Now - Skybird wanted to do some research. Nothing wrong with that - but he states that some sites he chose to "investigate". Simple things like - if its an unknown site with a .ru or .cn domain, you have to be cognizent that your exposing yourself to an even higher risk. Tread carefully - ask yourself if your willing to take the risk to investigate.

Next, the idea of "drive by" infection. Infections don't just "happen" - they require either human interaction (via a click to open or save a picture) or they are injected using scripts. If you choose to open an infected file and your "real time protection" doesn't catch the threat, your had. But what about scripts - the dreaded "drive by, I didn't click anything" infection?

TURN OFF SCRIPTING or set it to prompt you for permission before running. ActiveX especially for IE (since most exploits target the largest market share) is the biggest culprit. So many people don't do this - and then get hit with a drive by that used scripting to infect them.

One tool most end users don't know about (or choose not to use) is sandboxing. Its creating a memory space that can run an application (including web browsers) without allowing direct hard drive access. So if you do get an infection - and it doesn't get caught - when the sandbox is "flushed" - the virus goes away. It never gets out of the "box" of memory devoted to the application. Again - not a perfect technology (and you need decent amounts of RAM to be able to dedicate some to the sandbox) but it can often save you heartache. Its likely that a sandbox would have saved Skybird the frustration he now has. A company I worked for at one time took this to the extreme - the entire OS and all applications ran in a sandbox - so if anything ever happened you rebooted and your machine came up clean. That takes it too far for most users, but it does point to our next tip....

Expect an infection. What does this mean? Simply put, infections are a pill because they take time to get rid of, and if you don't do a full rebuild you will always wonder "did I get it all?". Build your machine with the OS and truly critical apps. Update it. Tweak it. Then make an image of it. That way, if you are infected your looking at a quick reimage with a few additional apps/games to install instead of a multi-hour build. Plan for failure and your recovery will be much quicker.

On that point - ideally you want to avoid failure. Or at least - avoid it on your prize PC. Don't be a dummy, use a dummy instead! If you want to be on the interwebz, consider using an old, crappy piece of junk to do your web surfing on. Don't expose your expensive rig to the uglies IF you have an old clunker to ride the information superhighway in. A PC with top specs isn't going to outperform a clunker on the web in most cases - because the limiting factor is the speed of your internet connection - not the pc. Sure your browser may start slower, but after that its going to be all about the data flow..... So if you have a clunker, use it. And don't worry gents, all those hot girls on the interwebz can't see your driving the pinto when you meet then online!

Of course - if your gaming online - using the clunker isn't an option. So use the gaming rig - but be disciplined. Don't go to links you don't know, don't open attachments or emails from people you are not sure of, etc.

Your brain is the first line of defence. Make good choices.

Oh - and for those that want them - there are some good, free tools out there for imaging and sandboxing.....

[kiwi_2005]

I made up my own security suite once and had this setup running for a while

Malwarebytes

Panda Cloud

McAfee SiteAdvisor
will give you update on sites you are entering

Microsoft Security Essentials

CCleaner,

Zonealarm firewall

Common sense

All the above is free, you now have yur own cowboy Security Suite.

[Skybird]

I know that all, Haplo, and I agree.

I am quite aware of security holes like scriptings, Java, and that you should not trust to click everything, everywhere. And like I repeatedly said: even modern security software does not detect especially this damn Zeus thing reliably - as a matter of fact latest Zeus incrantions defeat dsecurity software most oif thte time. My browser is pretty much closed up, almost on maximum settings, but tzhere is always the chance of human error: that I oversee to update Adobe Flash in time, or during some ordering process I needed to unlock cookies or some scriptiung setting , and afterwards forgot to close the door again.

The damn thing with drive-by attacks is that yiou must not do anything anym,ore to exceute malware. Simply ladning on the site already triggers the activation, you must not open a mail or click on a link on that site. It is like walking in town. You muts not ask people to cpough at you. If there is a sick person breathing once or twice in your neck and you are unlucky, you got infected. You can avoid that only by staying at home, and not going out.

I do like this on the web most of the time. But some risks simply mjust be taken, and maybe this time I have leaned myself out of the window in just the wrong place. Click one pic of a Chinese fighter on Google Picture Search - and voila. I played, I took a risk, and this time I got burned. It's been the first timne since many years, and I am lucky enough to have realised it within hours of daytime and minutes of computer operation time.

The one tnhbing I wanted to get over in my opening posting is that there are threads out there, like Zeus, where you cannot trust in your security software to protect you. Zeus beats it in 3 out of 4 events.

You swim at the beach, its holiday. When you do not meet Mr. Shark in the water, everything's fine and holiday continues. When you meet him, you are srewed. That'S how it is.

Much worse it becomes when you do not realsie that you have been compromised and that you have been assimilated by a zombienet. And I think that is the case with most people who caught an infection. They even do not realise it. I have, immediately, and reinstalled and changed my important passwords, for banking and buying tansactions, not for harmless forums. Time-consuming, but no financial damage done (so far). In the end, it just confirms me in my usual paranoia (shopping accounts, social networks, Google, and the like).

[CaptainHaplo]

Skybird - I trust you know that wasn't aimed at you - you simply opened up an opportunity for me to impart some knowledge that others may read.

Were you running a sandbox? If not, make sure you add that to your suite of tools in the next build! Good luck!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Skybird - I trust you know that wasn't aimed at you - you simply opened up an opportunity for me to impart some knowledge that others may read.

All lights on green, I knew it was nothing personal, don'T worry.

Indeed the fault is with me. I may have overseen to update something in time (I use Secunia PSI once a week, but it is not 100% perfect).

Were you running a sandbox? If not, make sure you add that to your suite of tools in the next build! Good luck!

And a second fault of mine - I always bypassed that, since I know not much about it and was too lazy to get the education on it. Have no idea how to do it, and I am wondering anyway: is there really no virus or malware that can defeat it? I mean the reserved space in memory still is physically attached to the system and all hardware. where there is physical connection, there is an entrance gate - always. You just need to learn how to use it. And is there really no hacker not able to defeat a sandbox? Layman on sandboxes that I am, I say: I do not believe that.

One tool most end users don't know about (or choose not to use) is sandboxing. Its creating a memory space that can run an application (including web browsers) without allowing direct hard drive access. So if you do get an infection - and it doesn't get caught - when the sandbox is "flushed" - the virus goes away. It never gets out of the "box"

Sandboxing, this is new to me, I'm going to look into this, looks like a must have. I recently made a visit to a trusted site and clicked on a howto picture link only to be hit by a trojan. Security Essentials picked it up right away and wiped it, but the site has now been black balled as a bad risk.

Security Essentials seems to work quite well I recon, any thoughts on this ?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by sidslotm

Sandboxing, this is new to me, I'm going to look into this, looks like a must have. I recently made a visit to a trusted site and clicked on a howto picture link only to be hit by a trojan. Security Essentials picked it up right away and wiped it, but the site has now been black balled as a bad risk.

Security Essentials seems to work quite well I recon, any thoughts on this ?

Just think of it: people want free versions of a security software - that needs constant maintenance and daily updates - to work as reliable and do as extensive a job, as a payware suite.

Why would anybvody buy the commercial versions then? I used the free versions of Avira AntiVir years ago, and a free firewall. But the commercial Avira suite does plenty more things than any of the free programs, and it is not just cosmetic options.

I would always reciommend people to go with a solid payware solution. It does not compare to the free antivirus scanners. As Haplo indicated, software alone does not give you total security, it is your behaviour in the first. But by software you can raise the hurdles for the hiuge diversity of different malware trying to enter. I mean when you leave the house, you do not leave the front door open, you close and you lock it, don'T you. When somebody wants to get in, no matter what, he nevertheless will, by brute force or clever, subtle ways. But still: you lock the door. The many criminals-by-opportunity you have discouraged by that already.

[CaptainHaplo]

For a good (if somewhat dated) read on sandboxing:
http://www.windowsecurity.com/articl...andboxing.html

If you want total security, lock the PC in a room only you can get to, and disconnect it entirely from the internet. Congrats - its secure. Otherwise, its all about using every tool to create a layered defense.

Sandboxing - like anything else - is another tool in the toolbox. Its not foolproof. Yes - sandboxes can be detected and bypassed - but doing so requires additional code that makes a virus more detectable. To detect a sandbox, the infection must query the system about its resources. This query is one of the things most "real time" protections look for.

Things like Java are sandboxes in and of themselves. Its a technology you use a lot. Sandboxing software that you can use to run your browsers within are free and easy. Give it a shot - layered defenses are good.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Only payware Firewall and AntiVirus suites for me. Nobody can convince me that what they do for a fee is done for same effectiveness but for free by "free versions".

that's the second time I have to agree with him.
I've been using Norton for sth like 6 years now and I've never had any problems.
I tried to use some free stuff for around a week a few years ago and after a few clicks my win XP tried to "save my marriage". After this prompt I immediately installed Norton back.

[kiwi_2005]

^Yeah ive gone back to Norton 360 premium edition. Works well and seems like its doing something, plus its smooth when gaming it has a silent mode option when gaming but i don't need to turn it on.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by kranz

I've been using Norton for sth like 6 years now and I've never had any problems.

I knew it, I f... knew it
I knew that as soon as I write that Norton is a very good tool bla bla bla I will get 50 infections within 15 minutes. Well, not quite. It wasn't 15 minutes but a week and not 50 but 1, but still....
I was browsing some pages yesterday and apparently caught some .exe file which activated today. My Start button went grey and a bit 'inside' (as if it was pushed). I realised that I had got infected. So I scanned with Norton. No result.
I checked the Process manager to identify the file, found the .exe responsible for all that mess and scanned it once again (only this one single file). No result,a safe file. Right...
I decided to scan with Eset online. Fortunately it found the infection - win32 agent, a trojan horse - and removed it.