America is NOT the greatest country in the world anymore.... But we sure used to be..

Sailor Steve · 07-13-12, 04:52 PM

I thought the clip was trite and melodramatic. Good for a sound bite, but not worth anything. The ideal that America brought forth 200 years ago did indeed change the world, but the country and its people are no better, no worse and no different than they were then. The ideal of freedom is a great one, perhaps the greatest, but associating the ideal with the country itself is arrogance at its worst.

Yes, there are many things wrong with America, just as there are many things wrong with any country, group or person. Part of the problem is that people disagree about exactly what is wrong and exactly what should be done about it. America is no less great now than it was fifty or two hundred years ago. It's the ideal that is great. Lose sight of that and you lose sight of the only thing that counts.

Ducimus · 07-13-12, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

. It's the ideal that is great. Lose sight of that and you lose sight of the only thing that counts.

Idea's are like dreams. Worthless without deeds.

Stealhead · 07-13-12, 06:24 PM

Sailor Steve said ideals which is the idea of something that is perfect; something that one hopes to attain or conforming to an ultimate standard of perfection or excellence; embodying an ideal which the US being founded on the idea of freedom being an inalienable right to all men and the Bill of Rights attempts to make this ideal protected.

Now what you say about ideas is true at the same time this nation has acted on what was thought to be important many times what was important was and is today varies from person to person and some people never put their ideas to action but many people in fact do.

I think we are all saying the same thing though.

Codz · 07-13-12, 06:41 PM

I'm going to assume he is reffering to the 40's/50's/60's. Even back then we weren't "greatest". Sure, there were good moments back then such as the victory of WWII, Moon landings, helping rebuild Europe, and some other inovations. However, back then we also had some very dark domestic issues as well. Just look at the civil rights issues. Segregation, widespread racism, McCarthyism, etc. I don't think that any nation in the world has ever deserved the title of "greatest". All nations have their positives and negatives, good history and dark history. Some are worse than others, but it is arrogant to claim any one nation as "best".

Stealhead · 07-13-12, 06:54 PM

Things are always changing and also staying the same nothing is perfect.

les green01 · 07-14-12, 09:00 AM

America not perfect but i still got freedom there alot of places that dont and i wouldnt move to them but here a quote from a John Wayne movie basic tells how i feel.

Republic. I like the sound of the word. It means people can live free, talk free, go or come, buy or sell, be drunk or sober, however they choose. Some words give you a feeling. Republic is one of those words that makes me tight in the throat - the same tightness a man gets when his baby takes his first step or his first baby shaves and makes his first sound as a man. Some words can give you a feeling that makes your heart warm. Republic is one of those words.

mookiemookie · 07-14-12, 09:19 AM

America is not the greatest, but I think it's pretty darn good. I remember when I first saw that clip that the OP posted. I agree with the sentiment, but I also think that there's also a lot of great things about this country.

But then again, the idea of "American exceptionalism" is completely juvenile and ignorant.

wellsronald18 · 07-16-12, 12:00 AM

We are so far behind in education and social growth, so there is lots of area where we have so many chances to improve and to be great.

Sailor Steve · 07-13-12, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Idea's are like dreams. Worthless without deeds.

And I've never said otherwise. It was the idea and the ideal that set us apart. The country itself, and the people, are no different than any other country or people. What makes the difference is what we strive for. It started with the Enlightenment in England and France. They thought it, we put it into motion and then it spread back across to Europe. Today we in the Western World (and parts of the Eastern) believe in the same things. No, we don't practice it as well as we should, but we don't practice it any less, or any more, than we ever did.

Platapus · 07-13-12, 09:52 PM

Perhaps what the US needs is a good dose of humility?

07-13-12, 04:52 PM	#1
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I thought the clip was trite and melodramatic. Good for a sound bite, but not worth anything. The ideal that America brought forth 200 years ago did indeed change the world, but the country and its people are no better, no worse and no different than they were then. The ideal of freedom is a great one, perhaps the greatest, but associating the ideal with the country itself is arrogance at its worst. Yes, there are many things wrong with America, just as there are many things wrong with any country, group or person. Part of the problem is that people disagree about exactly what is wrong and exactly what should be done about it. America is no less great now than it was fifty or two hundred years ago. It's the ideal that is great. Lose sight of that and you lose sight of the only thing that counts. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

07-13-12, 06:41 PM	#4
Codz A-ganger Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 73 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I'm going to assume he is reffering to the 40's/50's/60's. Even back then we weren't "greatest". Sure, there were good moments back then such as the victory of WWII, Moon landings, helping rebuild Europe, and some other inovations. However, back then we also had some very dark domestic issues as well. Just look at the civil rights issues. Segregation, widespread racism, McCarthyism, etc. I don't think that any nation in the world has ever deserved the title of "greatest". All nations have their positives and negatives, good history and dark history. Some are worse than others, but it is arrogant to claim any one nation as "best". __________________ "Magnificent desolation."-Buzz Aldrin

07-14-12, 09:00 AM	#6
les green01 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Freeman Missouri Posts: 1,784 Downloads: 1416 Uploads: 0	America not perfect but i still got freedom there alot of places that dont and i wouldnt move to them but here a quote from a John Wayne movie basic tells how i feel. Republic. I like the sound of the word. It means people can live free, talk free, go or come, buy or sell, be drunk or sober, however they choose. Some words give you a feeling. Republic is one of those words that makes me tight in the throat - the same tightness a man gets when his baby takes his first step or his first baby shaves and makes his first sound as a man. Some words can give you a feeling that makes your heart warm. Republic is one of those words. __________________ I'll tell you what bravery really is. Bravery is just determination to do a job that you know has to be done. Audie Murphy

07-14-12, 09:19 AM	#7
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	America is not the greatest, but I think it's pretty darn good. I remember when I first saw that clip that the OP posted. I agree with the sentiment, but I also think that there's also a lot of great things about this country. But then again, the idea of "American exceptionalism" is completely juvenile and ignorant. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

07-13-12, 09:52 PM	#10
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,401 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Perhaps what the US needs is a good dose of humility? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

07-13-12, 06:24 PM	#3
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Sailor Steve said ideals which is the idea of something that is perfect; something that one hopes to attain or conforming to an ultimate standard of perfection or excellence; embodying an ideal which the US being founded on the idea of freedom being an inalienable right to all men and the Bill of Rights attempts to make this ideal protected. Now what you say about ideas is true at the same time this nation has acted on what was thought to be important many times what was important was and is today varies from person to person and some people never put their ideas to action but many people in fact do. I think we are all saying the same thing though.

07-13-12, 06:54 PM	#5
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Things are always changing and also staying the same nothing is perfect.

07-16-12, 12:00 AM	#8
wellsronald18 Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	We are so far behind in education and social growth, so there is lots of area where we have so many chances to improve and to be great.

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