Satire verboten: Pope vs German magazine

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It isn't a freedom of speech issue, its infringement of the vaticans marketing rights as their commercial image.

Given the number of law suits the Titanic already had, it would be foolish if they used an image of which they didn't acquire the publishing rights before.

In general, German citizens have a "right of possession" of their own picture, meaning that no pics shall be published without the person's consent. This however goes not for persons of "contemporary history", which the pope definitely is. (§22/23 KunstUrhG - sorry, no English version available online)

Altering a work from someone else to create a new (art)work, is also allowed - if there is enough "threshold of originality" - a definition that often leads to law suits. For example you are free to cover a music title without permission from the artist. In the example of the pope pic, the question is if 2 photoshop stains are enough to create a new piece of art.

Given the number of law suits the Titanic already had, it would be foolish if they used an image of which they didn't acquire the publishing rights before.

But the pope is a marketing brand for the catholic church which is itself a marketing brand.
Its the same as an image from any other business or in this case the "celebrity" is a brand just like a "celebrity" such as Paris Hilton.
Edit to add, I can't figure out if I am insulting the pope or hilton more thereor insulting them both the same or is it just insulting other celebrities

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

But the pope is a marketing brand for the catholic church which is itself a marketing brand.
Its the same as an image from any other business or in this case the "celebrity" is a brand just like a "celebrity" such as Paris Hilton.
Edit to add, I can't figure out if I am insulting the pope or hilton more thereor insulting them both the same or is it just insulting other celebrities

Well, celebs are first regarded as persons here - if they did not register their name as a brand which many do. If an entity does this, a brand is protected for 10 years, which can be extended if the owner wants to do so, again for 10 years.
However if you would impose as Paris Hilton or the catholic church, you would violate section 12 of the German Civil Code (the right to a name). Not even regarding the laws of good taste you'd violate if you'd do so!
Still if you take a picture of Paris Hilton in public, she can't do crap to stop you from publishing it, no permission is needed, no royalties have to be paid. The permission to use the Titanic photo was probably bought from a picture agency to which the photographer sold the publishing rights.

[MH]

It is offencive to pope i guess ...and funny.
Pope is public figure just like any politician so should be prepared to have some of it.

[Skybird]

The magazine's staff said that it is all a misunderstanding. Indeed they meant to show how the Pope was enjoying and celebrated something (forgot what they said it was), and that he only spilled some orange lemonade during that, which can be seen on the picture. They plan to form a delegation that will go to Rome and they look forward to discuss the matter in the spirit of friendship with a highranking Vatican delegation and the pope himself. Somebody also said they would welcome Italian and German politicians to join the Vatican-Titanic-summit.

[Skybird]

Imagine they did this with some Imam who called for the assassination of infidels. People in 40 or 50 states would be in the streets now, yelling hysterically and showing red faces, probably trampling some smaller guys in their crowds to death again. Wetsern politiicans would warn of not absuing free speech, and to practice self-constraint. Everybody would warn his neighbour to be sensible for Muslim feelings and how precious and holy it all is.

Seen that way, they really picked the wrong target.

Imagine they did this with some Imam who called for the assassination of infidels. People in 40 or 50 states would be in the streets now, yelling hysterically and showing red faces

Yes dear
Political satire of crazy fundy imans is widespread, so far I cannot recall crowds on the streets over it. Dr Hook even got his own puppet who was featured doing his crazy fundy death to the unbeliever rants.
No protests, they threw the dickhead in jail and made even more hours of jokes about it, still no protests.
Khomeni was a regular target of ridicule, any protests ovetr it? Nope.

[Penguin]

Titanic magazine reacted to the censorship with a new starting image on their webpage:



The pope in exhilaration!


Meanwhile some politicians show their understanding of freedom: Thomas Goppel, a christdemocrat from Bavaria, MoP and an ex-minister, in short a guy who should know some basics of our law, said: "If it was up to me, I would revoke his writing license."
Dear Herr Goppel, neither in Germany nor in Bavaria there is something like a license to write required, even christian fundamentalists like you can put down their mental bs into writing without asking for permission. If you don't like it, move to Iran!

Originally Posted by Skybird

Imagine they did this with some Imam who called for the assassination of infidels. People in 40 or 50 states would be in the streets now, yelling hysterically and showing red faces, probably trampling some smaller guys in their crowds to death again. Wetsern politiicans would warn of not absuing free speech, and to practice self-constraint. Everybody would warn his neighbour to be sensible for Muslim feelings and how precious and holy it all is.

Seen that way, they really picked the wrong target.

Eeehm, Titanic has a long and proud history of peeing off anyone. A few buzzwords: "Schröder setzt sich durch", "Shalom Ziegen....." or the "Mohammed-lookalike-contest"

They even provide a service for muslims :



Here do our cartoonists live!

[JU_88]

Not offensive to me, I cant speak for Catholics though.