"Truthers", 9/11 and Operation Northwoods

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I don'T know whether these conspiration claims are right or wrong. I don't think they are, but I cannot rule out that they maybe hold some truth nevertheless.

But what I always have said is this: Bush was openly ridiculed by his own people, his respectability was at a complete low, already his inauguration started with a demonstration of how low respect for him was, hjust remember how his car helplessly waited for around a quarter of an hour in the rain when they realised the demonstrations ahead and did not know whether to proceed or not.

9/11 was the best thing that has happened to him in his whole presidency. It saved him and tremendously helped in reelection (which was, that is fair to say, at least in massive doubt), it minimised resistence to Wolfowitz 10+ years old plan to attack Iraq although the strike was prepared and launched from Saudi Arabians staged in Afghanistan, allowed long-wanted limitations of freedom and civil liberties, and enabled Bush to act strong on the only "quality" that he really had: to act pathetically, to make pathetic adresses, and by playing strong the pathos chord pull sympathy of the wide public back on his side.

9/11 was the best thing that could have happened to the Bush adminsitration at that time.

So yes, they would have had a motive, a terribly strong motive. Which is no evidence, to make that also clear, that they did it. They benefitted from the crime - only this is certain.

I think you hit the nail just about on the head. 911 wasn't an inside job, but it was an opportunity for the bush administration (one that had obviously just botched the whole role of national security and allowed it to happen) to cash in on the tragic deaths of Americans on that day. They used it as a PR fiesta. The wold was sympathetic to our plight, american people were united...and what did they do? Get us into 2 pointless wars for no really good reason.

Yep, they pretty much cashed in and tried to ride that gravy train to 2008. and they really almost did

[August]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

I think you hit the nail just about on the head. 911 wasn't an inside job, but it was an opportunity for the bush administration (one that had obviously just botched the whole role of national security and allowed it to happen) to cash in on the tragic deaths of Americans on that day. They used it as a PR fiesta. The wold was sympathetic to our plight, american people were united...and what did they do? Get us into 2 pointless wars for no really good reason.

Yep, they pretty much cashed in and tried to ride that gravy train to 2008. and they really almost did

You Democrats just won't accept responsibility for anything you did now will you?

Why don;t you man up a little?

Bush was in office for nine months before 9-11 that's hardly time to get settled in, especially after 8 years of Democratic foreign policy mismanagement. The intelligence and political failures that led to 9-11 and the two subsequent happened long before he ever took office.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by August

You Democrats just won't accept responsibility for anything you did now will you?

Why don;t you man up a little?

Bush was in office for nine months before 9-11 that's hardly time to get settled in, especially after 8 years of Democratic foreign policy mismanagement. The intelligence and political failures that led to 9-11 and the two subsequent happened long before he ever took office.

Could you elaborate to foreigner what you mean with those "intelligence and political failures"?

Could you elaborate to foreigner what you mean with those "intelligence and political failures"?

He means the decision to invade Iraq was down to the democrats and their made up intelligence which they sent Powell to the UN with, and then it was the democrats who went ahead with their pushing on plan after the UN said "meh" and the french said "thats made up bollox not intelligence".
Get with the program kraznji and man up, the 2 wars after 9/11 are down to the democrats especially the one that had absolutely nothing to do with anything remotely connected to 9/11

[Sailor Steve]

No, he doesn't mean that at all. The Clinton administration had Osama at one point but let him get away.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No, he doesn't mean that at all. The Clinton administration had Osama at one point but let him get away.

There were Republicans on those committees as well. Team R likes to forget that. Team D likes to point the whole mess at Bush 43. This is the problem with modern politics. 9/11 represented a failure of the entire system. Every foreign policy entity. Every intelligence service. Every aspect of American leadership. For the past 30 years they have failed the people.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

There were Republicans on those committees as well. Team R likes to forget that. Team D likes to point the whole mess at Bush 43. This is the problem with modern politics. 9/11 represented a failure of the entire system. Every foreign policy entity. Every intelligence service. Every aspect of American leadership. For the past 30 years they have failed the people.

but but but I have to be able to blame the opposing political party don't I?

How can my side be better than your side if you insist that it was everyone's mistake????

Someone has to be the point of blame and it better be on the other political party's side. Get it?

What kind of an American are you anyway?????

It is ALWAYS "their" fault.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

There were Republicans on those committees as well. Team R likes to forget that.

Of course there were. I was just clarifying August's statement. Everybody likes to point the finger anywhere but at themselves.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

There were Republicans on those committees as well. Team R likes to forget that. Team D likes to point the whole mess at Bush 43. This is the problem with modern politics. 9/11 represented a failure of the entire system. Every foreign policy entity. Every intelligence service. Every aspect of American leadership. For the past 30 years they have failed the people.

And not one of them got so much as slap on the wrist, i hear alot of them got promoted though!

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

He means the decision to invade Iraq was down to the democrats and their made up intelligence which they sent Powell to the UN with, and then it was the democrats who went ahead with their pushing on plan after the UN said "meh" and the french said "thats made up bollox not intelligence".
Get with the program kraznji and man up, the 2 wars after 9/11 are down to the democrats especially the one that had absolutely nothing to do with anything remotely connected to 9/11

Ahem, yet they still happened under Bushes watch and it was the bush adminstration who pushed for them, not that it matters - since the Dems would have done no different anyway, When it comes to the big issues like foreign policy, monetry policy, national security etc the Dems and Reps hardly differ at all.
I cant believe people still buy into these petty partisan theatrics.

Look at the 2012 election its Goldman sachs vs Goldman sachs, oh sorry I mean Romney vs Obama. kindly explain to me what is the difference? as best i can tell they agree on just about everything.
Both candiates are hollow men, serial flip-floppers who seemly dont have any conviction or a solid opinion on anything, Obama will likley win - his only real advantage being that his flip-flop track record isnt quite as long as Romney's.
America is on a fixed course and has been for well over a decade, Weather its Reps or Dems at the helm is just apples and oranges. Two wings of the same bird.

No, he doesn't mean that at all. The Clinton administration had Osama at one point but let him get away.

No, the two subsequent actions are the attempt to do Afghanistan on the cheap and the entirely unrelated waste of time in Iraq.
One can be linked as it involved trying to get to Bin Laden, but since he includes both he cannot have meant that.

[Safe-Keeper]

This has all the makings of a typical CT-er post:

• Closed mind: predetermined conviction that his claim is "the truth".
• Poisoning the well by painting anyone who challenge his view as "blind" or "narrow-minded". See above.
• The "I was a sceptic at first, too" gimmick.
• The red herring tactic: pulling in various unrelated topics as if they somehow constitute evidence of the CT claim.
• "Argument by YouTube" in place of actual discussion.
• Cherry-picking: taking quotes that seem to support the CT out of context; cherry-picking expert statements.

Originally Posted by Skybird

9/11 was the best thing that has happened to [Bush] in his whole presidency.

Firstly, one could argue that dumping such a huge crisis in the lap of an incompetent leader isn't a good thing for him. If I was in charge of something right now and felt I wasn't doing a good job, an emergency would be the last thing I wanted.

Sure, someone benefited. Someone always does, whenever something bad happens. The anti-nuclear lobby has benefitted tremendously after the tsunami hit Japan and caused one of the Fukushima reactors to melt down. But do you see anyone claiming that Greenpeace was behind the tsunami?

As you said yourself, it's not evidence. In fact, it's completely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by flatsixes

I lost some friends on that day. In those buildings.
Please stop with this crap.
Thanks.

We did. All of the CT-er claims were shot down almost as soon as they were thrown out. Rational answers to every single CT-er argument are a google search away to be scrutinized by those with a true open mind. The movement has nothing new to contribute. The crap has stopped, which in a way is a detriment to the 9/11 "truth" movement. Had they had anything new to contribute in place of the same old jargon and misconceptions and lies, they'd actually serve a function.

Instead we get endless reruns, which is worse by far.

Originally Posted by Halgarre

I keep an open mind when I read and watch this stuff. Three things that does have me scratching my head.

You then proceed to ask questions that have been answered over a decade ago. So much for your "open mind".

I think of 9/11 as our generations JFK/Grassy Knoll.

I'm glad, despite your ignorance, that you're able to see this. Good on you.

[August]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Could you elaborate to foreigner what you mean with those "intelligence and political failures"?

There are many, they are bipartisan and they go back to the 1970's. To blame either side is hypocrisy.