BAE Systems and Saudi Arabia sign £1.9bn Hawk jet deal

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I'd much prefer if they used the weaponry to defend themselves from the likes of Iran, which is what I suspect is the reality.

It is self-deception to differe ntiate military equipment for riot control and self-defence. a tank is wonderful for riot control. Especially a tank that is specialisded for urban warfare, like the Leo-2 PSO/A7.

Anyhow, it is Saudi Arabia, and I do not care a damn for that barbaric dirtholoe of a dark place being overthrown or not by somebody. Saudi Arabia, Iran, they both are our enemies, they both are Islamic, they both claimn global ranks and world diominance for Islam, they both foster terrorism and infiltrtation of Wetsenr socieites and industries (the latter regarding SA, not so mjuch Iran, obviously).

The Arab Spring in my view is a Nightmare, and SA has used military forces to send them to that tiny little neighbour in its north-East to help them cracking down on protestors.

If Iran and SA would find a way to vaporize each other in total annihilation without nuking other palces as well, I would say:" Okay, leave them alone, do not disturb them before their task is completed".

What interest must I have to appease or defend Saudi Arabia? It's onwe of th worst barbars on the globe!

Oh, wait, I forgot it for a moment. Oil. So yes, you are right, let'S defend them.

An the German hypocrisy there. In the early 90s, we delivered plenty of IFVs and APC from former Eastgerman army stocks to Turkey, BMPs, BTRs and stuff like that. We negotiated a treaty that ruled that the Turklish army shall be forbiodden to use any of this equipement in its operations against Kurds. Two or three years later video evidence showed up in TV magazionbes showing how vehicles that got identified beyond doubt to be part opf these deliveries were operating in combat operations against the Kurds. How stupid have the Germans been there that they seriously thought that this part of the treaty would have any meaning and would be followed by the Turks?

We are naive bureaucrats, we compare to somebody solving high crime rates by declaring it illegal to be criminal, fixing it on paper, and put an official stamp on it so that the rule becomes valid. Problem solved.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Oh, wait, I forgot it for a moment. Oil. So yes, you are right, let'S defend them.

Isn't that a good reason?
Look at all the moaning about gas prices due to Iranian sanctions or potential war now just imagine closing the SA tab.

[Oberon]

Snag is, while we're sucking oil like it's going out of fashion then we NEED the likes of Saudi Arabia. Which means giving it guns to suppress an Arab Spring which could give it a government which denies us oil, it means giving it guns to prevent it from being attacked by Iran and it means turning a blind eye while it gets away with supporting extremism around the Middle East.

The alternatives, in the current oil-reliant climate, are too terrible to consider.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MH

Isn't that a good reason?
Look at all the moaning about gas prices due to Iranian sanctions or potential war now just imagine closing the SA tab.

It is a reason illustrating how stupid we are, becasue it should not be a reason today anymore. We have had the early warning, the oil crisis in the early 70s, but some wanted to make more profit from sticking with oil, and so wax was distributed so that all could seal their ears and must not hear the warning shot. OPEX held a weapon at our head and blackmailed us openly, not hiding it.

We refused to learn anything from that. What'S more, we strenghtewned structures that made us even more vulnerable and depending on our vulnerability: our dependency on oil.

When we still do not realise there is a strong wind even when our p!ss is flying back into our faces, then we are a hopeless case for sure. Every sane mind would have recommended to at least turn around a bit.