Saved by shallow water

[MarkCt]

Even if you hit one and he doesn't sink you still take him out of the game.

I have been carrying 4 electric torpedoes in the bow tubes and will try a "down the throat" shot if I get a DD charging down on me. Like the cuties, I look at it as a defensive weapon as much as an offensive weapon. They usually don't see it coming.

[Hylander_1314]

Originally Posted by MarkCt

Even if you hit one and he doesn't sink you still take him out of the game.

I have been carrying 4 electric torpedoes in the bow tubes and will try a "down the throat" shot if I get a DD charging down on me. Like the cuties, I look at it as a defensive weapon as much as an offensive weapon. They usually don't see it coming.

Takes a little perfecting for your own style of doing it, but it is very rewarding when done! Also the suspense is exhillerating!

Once you get used to it, you can even use the late war Mk VIIIs and since you're so close to DD when firing them, you can even get away with using the magnetic detonators especially if it isn't very rough seas during the attack.

The tough part, is knowing when to swerve while playing chicken with fast dds. I usually go to flank speed, and dive for real deep waters, and swerve just as the dd comes overhead incase the torpedo misses. Usually though, you're lauching them from 1000 yards so they don't have time to react.

[MarkCt]

The electric torpedo is rated for 4000 yards so I usually wait till about 3000 yards, fire and dive. No matter what I do, they always seem to detect me unless the water is rough.

[Hylander_1314]

But to ensure a hit, you gotta get close. Trouble is, the electric fish are too slow. I use the standard Mark VIIIs after the '43 improvements of depth keeping and detonator issues.

I usuall set the torpedo depth to just slightly under the rated keel depth the ID Book gives. Wait until the last second to fire, and let 'em have it.

Take her deep at flank speed, and wait for the hit, and then kick 15 degrees rudder left or right whatever you prefer, so you don't bleed off too much speed, and once clear, go to silent running if there are other dds in the area.

But playing "chicken" with DDs can be nerve-wracking too! Especially if the detonator is faulty.

[MarkCt]

What would be the minimum distance to shoot? Whenever I wait too long to shoot, like under 1000 yards or so, it always seem like my torpedoes pass underneath without detonating. That's why I shoot at 3000. that way I have a second chance to shoot again or turn and fire a cutie before diving.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by MarkCt

What would be the minimum distance to shoot? Whenever I wait too long to shoot, like under 1000 yards or so, it always seem like my torpedoes pass underneath without detonating. That's why I shoot at 3000. that way I have a second chance to shoot again or turn and fire a cutie before diving.

That shouldn't be a problem, I make many shots in the 600-1000 yard range, just early war I set them 10ft above keel depth...somethings not making sense here.

Main thing is to stay narrow towards the nearest DD, if you stay broadsides to one, your gonna get found out if within a few thousand yards.

[bill clarke]

Great thread.

Can the escorts pick you up on the bottom ?, and could they historically ?

I'm in the early part of the war Dec 41, I've got MK 14's but I notice that there are Steam torps available too., any advantage using them ?

And when do the "cuties" become available ? and where is Travellers mod ?, had a look for it but no luck.

[Krauter]

Wasn't sitting on the bottom bad for submarines, since the drains to their ballast tanks were on the bottom of the hull, and could thus get clogged with mud and debris? Or was that only for modern submarines?

[MarkCt]

Given a choice, I wouldn't sit on the bottom. In my case I had to because I had heavy flooding plus the Formossa Stright is shallow enough in spots to avoid crush depth. I would rather keep moving that way I have some type of control. The last thing you want is to get caught on the bottom and a DD drops a string of 12 depth charges on you and you have no where to go.

I told you there are some that don't like using cuties. In my four rear tubes I always keep two. When they become available try a couple.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by bill clarke

Great thread.

Can the escorts pick you up on the bottom ?, and could they historically ?

They can and they could.

I'm in the early part of the war Dec 41, I've got MK 14's but I notice that there are Steam torps available too., any advantage using them ?

Mk 14's are steam torpedos. They were really the standard in most navies. The electric were a kind of infatuation; the advantage being that they were "trackless". The problem is that they were also slow, and often less reliable.

I should add the "steam" term comes from the fact that they worked by having fuel, air and water injected into a combustion chamber and the process created carbon dioxide, steam and nitrogen (left over from the air). The steam would condense, but the nitrogen would create bubbles, and leave a track.

[commandosolo2009]

Originally Posted by MarkCt

Patrolling in the Formossa Straight, I came upon a TF of a BB, a couple cruisers and about 5 destroyers. After getting a hit on the BB and sinking two destroyers with "cuties" I got hit with a string of DC's. One compartment was flooded and one was partial. I had 58% hull damage with bulkhead damage, fuel leak and injured crew. With the flooding I started to slowly sink. Depth was just under 300 so I decided to just sit on the bottom and go quiet to make repairs. It took awhile but the destroyers finally gave up and all repairs were made which allowed me to return to base with 4 KIA's.

So it just goes to show that sometimes shallow water can be your best friend.

That happened to me before, during a port raid in Rabaul. Only the Akizuki on the very shallows kept charging me, so I bottomed her, with repairs in motion, and tubes loading... there was that pocket of deep between the chains were I completed repairs and PD'd to sink the bastard.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Wasn't sitting on the bottom bad for submarines, since the drains to their ballast tanks were on the bottom of the hull, and could thus get clogged with mud and debris? Or was that only for modern submarines?

Apparently not, because they did it many times. Or maybe they took the risk because it was the only choice at the time. I don't know anything about modern subs.

[Daniel Prates]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Apparently not, because they did it many times. Or maybe they took the risk because it was the only choice at the time. I don't know anything about modern subs.

I should imagine that, due to size and weight, landing a Los Angeles sub in the bottom of the ocean is close to an impossible thing. Fleetboats, being much smaller, are another matter.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

I should imagine that, due to size and weight, landing a Los Angeles sub in the bottom of the ocean is close to an impossible thing. Fleetboats, being much smaller, are another matter.

I don't know that much about modern subs, but I doubt there would be a temptation for them to resort to such tactics. They are much faster, the batteries don't run down, they have more effective weapons, so why would they allow themselves to be caught in shallow water?





The case I read, where a US sub bottomed out and thereby evaded destruction, occured after they had already sustained damage, and were leaking oil. They realized the oil was seeping up and the DD's could see it. The critical detail that saved them was that the currents were carrying the oil away, so the enemy ships dropped DC's on the wrong spot. The Captain wisely ordered flood negative and waited quietly, until the enemy went away.


Ordinarily, the enemy ships could still ping you and locate you, even if your not making noise, and if you aren't moving, you would be easier to hit.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Ordinarily, the enemy ships could still ping you and locate you, even if your not making noise, and if you aren't moving, you would be easier to hit.

Not necessarily. First, the bottom is rarely smooth, and irregularities cause sonar to reflect in random directions, helping to hide the sub. Second, the sand helps to absorb the force of the blast. I'm not saying it's perfect, as one close hit can end it all, and we have no record of the subs it didn't work for, but it was done and sometimes done very well. Re-read my links about S-38.