Senate Blocks Buffett Rule 30% Tax Floor on Top Earners.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

So social security is a giveaway, and caring for our elderly are entitlements?

I don't know a lot about Medicare, but Social Security was supposed to be a zero-sum proposition.

We have been paying into SS our whole lives. It is not an entitlement.

Maybe if congress can stop stealing it to dump into wars, it will not be seen as an entitlement to be taken away by the far righties.

And it is broke. Social Security did at one point pay for itself, and the mony you put in was there for you when you retired. Congress could not steal it. The problem has nothing to do with wars. Congress is not allowed to touch Social Security. Unfortunately, SS is allowed to "loan" the money in the provision that it be repaid with interest. SS looks good because they are helping out, and Congress looks good because the National Debt is lowered by however much money they get. At least that's how it looks on paper, and the debt never manages to get repaid. You've paid into SS your whole life and the only money available is what others are paying in now. So what's in it for them, and when does the ponzi scheme collapse? And what happens when it does?

On a side note, go ahead and kill SS, I want every penny back I put into it, since I started working at age 14, with inflationary interest. So does everyone else. (or is it in some Iraqi or pakistani pocket already?)

SS is already dead. The money you paid in is gone, and it's not the fault of "the rich", and it's not the fault of the Right, or of the Left. It's what Congress does, and we've let them get away with it for so long that it seems natural.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

SS is already dead. The money you paid in is gone, and it's not the fault of "the rich", and it's not the fault of the Right, or of the Left. It's what Congress does, and we've let them get away with it for so long that it seems natural.

Be that as it may it is still a debt that the Federal Government owes the American people. If they don't pay it back then it removes any legitimacy they may have.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

Be that as it may it is still a debt that the Federal Government owes the American people. If they don't pay it back then it removes any legitimacy they may have.

Like that's ever gonna happen.

Wasn't laughing at you or your comment, just at the idea. I don't think they have any legitimacy at all, and the only reason it works is because people believe it.

Supposedly The Government owes the debt to itself, and then it owes it to the people. Unfortunately Congress will never pay SS back, and rather than even trying to pay the people, the Fed tells us it's what we owe, not them, and we believe them. Part of the problem is that back in 1935 benifits had to passed out right away, and to people who had never paid in, because there was no Social Security while they were working. The good news was that there were a lot more paying in than recieving benifits. Then in the '50s the Greatest Generation came home and started making babies, and lots of them. In the 1970 we believed in Zero Population Growth. That didn't really happen, but thanks to medicine, diet and better living there are more people on the recieving end than the paying, and funds are dwindling, not growing. Couple that with SS buying Treasury Bonds to shore up the other spending, and it's a wonderful house of cards just waiting for a big blow.

During the Big Bailout I asked where the money was coming from. Congress is so far in debt there is pretty much no hope of recovery, and SS is right there with them. Taxing the Rich at 99% wouldn't go five yards toward bailing out the Government, but it would leave them as broke as the rest of us and make a lot of people feel good about themselves. The problem isn't The Rich, it's The Congress, and the only way out of this is to take away their exorbitant salaries and benifits, and make it a public service, not a great career move. That wouldn't solve the debt either, but it might make them think of themselves as servants, not overlords, and it might make them actually do something to help the country rather than the handful of people who make them ever richer.

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by August

Be that as it may it is still a debt that the Federal Government owes the American people. If they don't pay it back then it removes any legitimacy they may have.

That is how I see it. We the people allow the government to collect that money in good faith.

In good faith, when that faith is gone, then we are gone. Everything we fought for, from independance on. Poof.

As well as our standing amongst nations.

Edit: I am not a rape the rich kind of guy, but am for elimination of loopholes that only the wealthy have access too, and a more uniform tax system based on total earnings over the course of the year, rather than on earned income (you know like fairness for blue collar guys) . Why should the trust fund baby playing with the stock market pay 15%, while I struggle with my bills and pay 30% plus?

(don't even get me started on NJs local taxes)

[August]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

That is how I see it. We the people allow the government to collect that money in good faith.

In good faith, when that faith is gone, then we are gone. Everything we fought for, from independance on. Poof.

As well as our standing amongst nations.

Edit: I am not a rape the rich kind of guy, but am for elimination of loopholes that only the wealthy have access too, and a more uniform tax system based on total earnings over the course of the year, rather than on earned income (you know like fairness for blue collar guys) . Why should the trust fund baby playing with the stock market pay 15%, while I struggle with my bills and pay 30% plus?

(don't even get me started on NJs local taxes)

While I pretty much agree with you it must be noted that for every trust fund baby living the good life there are plenty of seniors living modestly on dividends too. Doubling their tax rate would screw them over pretty good.

[nikimcbee]

I want my piece of the pie.

I was gunna go with the Bamster's pie speech, then I found this:




See the problem is he's taxing billions, but he's spending trillions.

They need to pick a tax, pick a percentage that EVERYBODY pays, no deductions, no exeptions, and base the budget off that. Any spending over what they are taking in gets cut.

Sure, it would make tax lawyer go extinct, but who cares, they're lawyers.