Life and Debt: A Greek Tragedy (merged)

[Skybird]

P.S. I am wondering sometimes: is it really like that the career inside the establishment corrupts people, do they get corrupted by success and blinded by money - or couldn't it be that only certain character traits have a chance from beginning on to make it the ladder upwards, is it that a corrputed mind already is needed to be successful inside the established system, must you have an blinding fixiation on money: else they would not even let you enter the club on entrance level?

I think it is the latter. Now figure what this tells about our education systems. Our cultural values. Our mental sanity in general. Our education of the young regarding ethics and humanism.

Not really a compliment for our greatness, I would say. Bildung and Ausbildung are two very different things.

[VipertheSniper]

Oh come on Skybird, don't you remember that disgusting campaign by the "Bild". That was rude and uncalled for. I think the Greeks know full well, that they share responsibility in this mess. But ridiculing them in the newspapers, isn't going to help a single bit.

I can understand their bitterness.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by VipertheSniper

Oh come on Skybird, don't you remember that disgusting campaign by the "Bild". That was rude and uncalled for. I think the Greeks know full well, that they share responsibility in this mess.

Indeed. But they started first - months ahead. First they wanted Nazi gold. Then they started to campaign that Germany was conquering all Europe, and finally they compared Merkel to Hitler and Schäuble became the wickiest human being ever having lived on this planet.

And then Bild struck back, and others joined in.

Wie man in den Wald hineinbrüllt, so schallt es halt wieder heraus.

Again, my anger over some Greeks is not because their economy is in shatters. It is anger about a certain attitude that always accuses the others, and if the others do not easily will to bail them out endlessly, then criminalising them and offending them. Greece plays the self-victimization card, and its political elite obviously plans to play it time and time and time again. Another issue I have with Greece, that the parties have still not learned what the hour is by now, and still play their conspiratory games for power, knopwing that Germany has self-committed itself to bail out the Euro-Union endlessly (Merkels own verdict), by this giving a hilarious ammount of power and options for blackmailing to the southern states.

The debtor is the stronger the higher the potential write-offs are for the creditor. At some point, the balance tips over, and the debtor is stronger and can demand more than the creditor.

[krashkart]

I'd be bitter, too, if my country was falling down around my ears. And we're not that far off from it over here.

[Skybird]

A Greek's subjective observation:

Greeks embrace German thrift

By Georgios Christidis.

[Diopos]

A German's professional view (economic historian):
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...769703,00.html
by Albrecht Ritschl

.

[Kongo Otto]

To be honest Germany should not have wasted one Cent of their Taxpayers money for Greece, Ireland or anybody else!
For what? Why?
Be sure that nothing will change, they take our money and as thanks we get the middlefinger. German politicians just forget where they money is from the put down the drain so willingly. It's not theirs it's the money of hard working humans beeings known as taxpayers.
I really don't give a rats fart about Greece or anyone of those Sates. Your Problem, your responsibility for a solution!
Go and solve yours problems alone, why should i or any other german taxpayer care?
How many Billions of Euros has the german Government put down the drain alone for Greece and with the same breath the same German Politicians tell us "sorry we can't built new streets or schools, no money"
Aha ok then stop burning money on Greece and spent it there were it belongs to!
Spend German Taxmoney for German taxpayers!
Kick Greece out of the Eurozone, i say! They swindled their way into the Eurozone now give'em the boot and sho'em the door!
Enough is enough i say!
It's as simple as that!

[Skybird]

Kongo Otto, the problem is this damn thing called globalised economy. The German economy and the economies of the others are closely tied and interwoven, causing plenty and plenty of bilateral feedbacks. The finance market made it even worse.

So while I have voiced criticism, I do not agree with this simplified view. I understand the anger, however. Yiur remark on the Greek middlefinger holds some truth - which is why Diopos and me ran into each other repeatedly, since I see it erected into the sky, and he claims it either is not so, or is an act of self-defence.

The fundament of present crisis is simple by structure, but complex in symptoms, and too many profiteers are allowed to still benefit from delaying needed, hard solutions: rich elites, bankers, banks, politicians, big ecohjomy business and it's lobbyists. These all work against solving the problematic present, since they suck it's blood and enjoy it, like ticks.

A signle tick must not be a threatening danger. But when they swarm all about your body and sit on your skin close by close, then you have a really big problem.