New Astronavigation Mod (ANM) – A Conception

don1reed · 04-05-12, 01:02 PM

Excellent work, silent marshal. Very much looking forward to try it out.

tonschk · 04-05-12, 02:36 PM

Indeed

very intresting

quink99 · 04-05-12, 05:12 PM

As one who has done a bit of RW celestial navigation in both sailboats and aircraft this would be the ultimate in immersion, challenge, and fun.

My congratulations, Silent Marshal! It won't be easy but it will be worth the effort. Good luck!

LemonA · 04-05-12, 08:04 PM

The mod should do this:
the more rolling of the boat in the swell the harder to get an accurate "reading" from the sextant.
Real sailors take 3 or more Sextant-shots at one session to minimize human errors and control their sextant-readings.

But i see in your concept this:
exact position = just bringing down the lower limb of the sun until it intersects with the horizon at two different times
+ doing some mathematical drawings

Actual what you see through a sextant for example at quit swell is more like this...

The GUI looks excellent.

What do you do here exactly?

Links for the "Höhendifferenzmethode"-method?

I would prefer a complete nautical almanac (pdf-book) instead of computer generated mini-tables for my current position.

Are you plan to calculate the arcdifference horizon <-> lowerlimb of sun at your own? Formulas? Example?

silent marshal · 04-06-12, 04:26 AM

ROLLING OF THE BOAT:
The human errors are an important point: they mostly determine the accuracy of our calculated position. I am not sure how to consider the rolling of the boat because in the sextant GUI the left side of the mirror is the "real" background (comparable with the UZO view: up-down-up-down...) but the right side is only a picture which is moved along the vertical axes. I don't know how to deal with this issue. I for myself would be satisfied if it is possible to make the horizont steady, regardless the rolling of the boat.

BACKGROUND OF THE METHOD:
A good source to understand what the "Höhendifferenzmethode" is about: www.kowoma.de/gps/astronav/allg_methode_1.htm (german page). There you can also find some hints about the graphical solution. I will explain some special corrections for use with SH5 later on.

ALMANAC:
The problem with the complete almanac is that you have to consider every minute of a year. This is possible to do but a lot of work. The point is, you have to find your day, the hour and minute and then read the data you need for your calculations. So you have to dial these inputs correctly to avoid false user input (human error). With the dials at the GUI, this human error factor is factored in.
But it's possible to make a complete almanac for the years of war.

FORMULAS:
All values are calculated with formulas (hight of the sun etc.). This is essential to get the azimut (A) and the Radialversatz (u); without them you can't determine your position. Examples of the formulas will follow soon (it's a lot of stuff).

ACTUAL TASK:
At the moment I am working for the method how to factor in the moving of the boat from T=1 (first shot) to T=2 (second shot), which will be used more often. Some more mathematics to do...

PS: I implemented only my sextant-buttons to the GUI of Dr.Jones. Hope it't ok for you, Dr. Jones...

04-06-12, 05:11 AM

Bravo Marshal!!! To which interface will this mod??? Thanks for the reply!

THE_MASK · 04-06-12, 05:53 AM

You can have a steady horizon looking thru the uzo by ticking the in game difficulty setting .

quink99 · 04-06-12, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent marshal

ALMANAC:
The problem with the complete almanac is that you have to consider every minute of a year. This is possible to do but a lot of work. The point is, you have to find your day, the hour and minute and then read the data you need for your calculations. So you have to dial these inputs correctly to avoid false user input (human error). With the dials at the GUI, this human error factor is factored in.
But it's possible to make a complete almanac for the years of war.

FORMULAS:
All values are calculated with formulas (hight of the sun etc.). This is essential to get the azimut (A) and the Radialversatz (u); without them you can't determine your position. Examples of the formulas will follow soon (it's a lot of stuff).

If you haven't already found them, Silent Marshal, you may find these two links helpful.

Celestial navigation data for assumed position and time

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/celnavtable.php

Navigation star finder

http://www.tecepe.com.br/cgi-win/cgiasvis.exe

Each will allow you to calculate the offered data for almost any date or time including our area of interest, 1939 thru 1945.

DrJones · 04-06-12, 02:31 PM

Hey marshal, that is a very great idea...Look at PM

Best Regards

DrJones

DrJones · 04-06-12, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silent marshal

ROLLING OF THE BOAT:
The human errors are an important point: they mostly determine the accuracy of our calculated position. I am not sure how to consider the rolling of the boat because in the sextant GUI the left side of the mirror is the "real" background (comparable with the UZO view: up-down-up-down...) but the right side is only a picture which is moved along the vertical axes. I don't know how to deal with this issue. I for myself would be satisfied if it is possible to make the horizont steady, regardless the rolling of the boat.

BACKGROUND OF THE METHOD:
A good source to understand what the "Höhendifferenzmethode" is about: www.kowoma.de/gps/astronav/allg_methode_1.htm (german page). There you can also find some hints about the graphical solution. I will explain some special corrections for use with SH5 later on.

ALMANAC:
The problem with the complete almanac is that you have to consider every minute of a year. This is possible to do but a lot of work. The point is, you have to find your day, the hour and minute and then read the data you need for your calculations. So you have to dial these inputs correctly to avoid false user input (human error). With the dials at the GUI, this human error factor is factored in.
But it's possible to make a complete almanac for the years of war.

FORMULAS:
All values are calculated with formulas (hight of the sun etc.). This is essential to get the azimut (A) and the Radialversatz (u); without them you can't determine your position. Examples of the formulas will follow soon (it's a lot of stuff).

ACTUAL TASK:
At the moment I am working for the method how to factor in the moving of the boat from T=1 (first shot) to T=2 (second shot), which will be used more often. Some more mathematics to do...

PS: I implemented only my sextant-buttons to the GUI of Dr.Jones. Hope it't ok for you, Dr. Jones...

Hey Marshal,

thats a great work you are doing here and you have my full support.

But don't forget, there will be an update which i will hopefully release here soon, when my workstation don't play any more cheats with me...

Best Regards

DrJones

Sartoris · 04-06-12, 02:36 PM

I hope TDW will have time to coordinate his efforts with you so that this wonderful idea gets incorporated into NewUI.

04-05-12, 01:02 PM	#1
don1reed Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Valhalla: Silent Generation Posts: 1,149 Downloads: 910 Uploads: 0	Excellent work, silent marshal. Very much looking forward to try it out. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell

04-05-12, 02:36 PM	#2
tonschk Admiral Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,200 Downloads: 172 Uploads: 0	Indeed very intresting __________________ What we do in life echoes in Eternity

04-06-12, 02:31 PM	#9
DrJones Samurai Navy Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany, 50 Kilometers away from Kiel Posts: 576 Downloads: 343 Uploads: 0	Cool Hey marshal, that is a very great idea...Look at PM Best Regards DrJones

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04-05-12, 05:12 PM	#3
quink99 中国水兵 Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 278 Downloads: 941 Uploads: 0	As one who has done a bit of RW celestial navigation in both sailboats and aircraft this would be the ultimate in immersion, challenge, and fun. My congratulations, Silent Marshal! It won't be easy but it will be worth the effort. Good luck!

04-05-12, 08:04 PM	#4
LemonA Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 252 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	The mod should do this: the more rolling of the boat in the swell the harder to get an accurate "reading" from the sextant. Real sailors take 3 or more Sextant-shots at one session to minimize human errors and control their sextant-readings. But i see in your concept this: exact position = just bringing down the lower limb of the sun until it intersects with the horizon at two different times + doing some mathematical drawings Actual what you see through a sextant for example at quit swell is more like this... The GUI looks excellent. What do you do here exactly? Links for the "Höhendifferenzmethode"-method? I would prefer a complete nautical almanac (pdf-book) instead of computer generated mini-tables for my current position. Are you plan to calculate the arcdifference horizon <-> lowerlimb of sun at your own? Formulas? Example?

04-06-12, 04:26 AM	#5
silent marshal Watch Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Vienna - Austria Posts: 25 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	ROLLING OF THE BOAT: The human errors are an important point: they mostly determine the accuracy of our calculated position. I am not sure how to consider the rolling of the boat because in the sextant GUI the left side of the mirror is the "real" background (comparable with the UZO view: up-down-up-down...) but the right side is only a picture which is moved along the vertical axes. I don't know how to deal with this issue. I for myself would be satisfied if it is possible to make the horizont steady, regardless the rolling of the boat. BACKGROUND OF THE METHOD: A good source to understand what the "Höhendifferenzmethode" is about: www.kowoma.de/gps/astronav/allg_methode_1.htm (german page). There you can also find some hints about the graphical solution. I will explain some special corrections for use with SH5 later on. ALMANAC: The problem with the complete almanac is that you have to consider every minute of a year. This is possible to do but a lot of work. The point is, you have to find your day, the hour and minute and then read the data you need for your calculations. So you have to dial these inputs correctly to avoid false user input (human error). With the dials at the GUI, this human error factor is factored in. But it's possible to make a complete almanac for the years of war. FORMULAS: All values are calculated with formulas (hight of the sun etc.). This is essential to get the azimut (A) and the Radialversatz (u); without them you can't determine your position. Examples of the formulas will follow soon (it's a lot of stuff). ACTUAL TASK: At the moment I am working for the method how to factor in the moving of the boat from T=1 (first shot) to T=2 (second shot), which will be used more often. Some more mathematics to do... PS: I implemented only my sextant-buttons to the GUI of Dr.Jones. Hope it't ok for you, Dr. Jones...

04-06-12, 05:11 AM	#6
Captain73 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Bravo Marshal!!! To which interface will this mod??? Thanks for the reply!

04-06-12, 05:53 AM	#7
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	You can have a steady horizon looking thru the uzo by ticking the in game difficulty setting .

04-06-12, 02:36 PM	#11
Sartoris Captain Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 489 Downloads: 106 Uploads: 0	I hope TDW will have time to coordinate his efforts with you so that this wonderful idea gets incorporated into NewUI.