Joe Biden on the bin Laden raid

[vienna]

I not sure, but I think if McCain had won the VP would have said, "Wow, this sure beats Stratego, you betcha!)

[August]

Originally Posted by vienna

I not sure, but I think if McCain had one the VP would have said, "Wow, this sure beats Stratego, you betcha!)

I think the Dems were very smart to have made 2008 an Obama vs Palin race and the GoP was pretty stupid for allowing them to get away with it.

In their one debate Palin and Biden both made mistakes but i would have thought that Biden, with all his legislative experience, should have wiped the floor with her. As it was she more than held her own and that says more about him than about her.

All I have to say is I hope Obama stays healthy until he leaves office!

[vienna]

Just because a person has legislative experience does not necessarily make them charismatic or able in a debate situation as equally someone charismatic is not necessarily good legislative/excutive material...

It's nice to have someone with both substance and charisma, but I'd take awkwardness backed up by substance over charisma backed by vacuity anyday...

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[August]

Originally Posted by vienna

Just because a person has legislative experience does not necessarily make them charismatic or able in a debate situation as equally someone charismatic is not necessarily good legislative/excutive material...

It's nice to have someone with both substance and charisma, but I'd take awkwardness backed up by substance over charisma backed by vacuity anyday...

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Then there is Joe Biden who is a known moron.

[vienna]

Then there is Joe Biden who is a known moron.

Then, what lower-rung descriptor beneath the level of 'moron' is Palin placed on?...

BTW, I was well prepared to vote for McCain, a person I respect and trust until the GOP shot themselves in the foot by running Ms. "I know foreign policy because I can see Russia from my porch"...

Doing that to McCain was a wretched way to treat a person who has given and done so much for this country...

Then, again, perhaps an albatross like Palin is what the GOP leadership considers to be their "bset and brightest"...

Sad way to kill off a once great party...

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[August]

Originally Posted by vienna

Then, what lower-rung descriptor beneath the level of 'moron' is Palin placed on?...

There is no level below Biden.

BTW, I was well prepared to vote for McCain, a person I respect and trust until the GOP shot themselves in the foot by running Ms. "I know foreign policy because I can see Russia from my porch"...

That was Tina Fey who said that on a SNL parody skit, not Palin. If you're dislike of Palin is not just partisanship then you shouldn't have to use fiction to make your point. Too bad the Democrats largely got away with doing the same thing during the election.

No the GoP shot themselves in the foot but it was by choosing a person for Veep that was not prepared for the rough and tumble world of national politics. That's quite enough in my book.

[vienna]

There is no level below Biden.

Hmm, let's see Biden's Wikipedia entry:

Joseph Robinette "Joe" Biden, Jr. ...; born November 20, 1942) is the 47th and current Vice President of the United States, serving under President Barack Obama. A Democrat, he was a United States Senator from Delaware from January 3, 1973 until his resignation on January 15, 2009, following his election to the Vice Presidency.

Biden was born in Scranton, Pennsylvania and lived there for ten years before moving to Delaware. He became an attorney in 1969, and was elected to a county council in 1970. Biden was first elected to the Senate in 1972 and became the sixth-youngest senator in U.S. history. He was re-elected to the Senate six times, was the fourth most senior senator at the time of his resignation, and is the 15th-longest serving Senator in history. Biden was a long-time member and former chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. His strong advocacy helped bring about U.S. military assistance and intervention during the Bosnian War. He opposed the Gulf War in 1991. He voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution in 2002, but later proposed resolutions to alter U.S. strategy there. He has also served as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, dealing with issues related to drug policy, crime prevention, and civil liberties, and led creation of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act and Violence Against Women Act. He chaired the Judiciary Committee during the contentious U.S. Supreme Court nominations of Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas.

Biden unsuccessfully sought the Democratic presidential nomination in 1988 and 2008, both times dropping out early in the race. Barack Obama selected Biden to be the Democratic Party nominee for Vice President in the 2008 U.S. presidential election. Biden is the first Roman Catholic and the first Delawarean to become Vice President of the United States. As Vice President, Biden has been heavily involved in Obama's decision-making process and held the oversight role for infrastructure spending from the Obama stimulus package aimed at counteracting the late-2000s recession. His ability to negotiate with Congressional Republicans played a key role in bringing about the bipartisan deals that resulted in the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 that resolved a taxation deadlock and the Budget Control Act of 2011 that resolved the United States debt ceiling crisis.

Now let's see Palin's:

Sarah Louise Palin ,,, (née Heath; born February 11, 1964) is an American politician, commentator and author. As the Republican Party nominee for Vice President in the 2008 presidential election, she was the first Alaskan on the national ticket of a major party and first Republican woman nominated for the vice presidency. Her book Going Rogue has sold more than two million copies. Since January 2010, she has provided political commentary for Fox News, and hosted a television show, Sarah Palin's Alaska. Five million viewers tuned in for the first episode, a record for The Learning Channel.

She was elected to Wasilla City Council in 1992 and became mayor of Wasilla in 1996. In 2003, after an unsuccessful run for lieutenant governor, she was appointed Chairman of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, responsible for overseeing the state's oil and gas fields for safety and efficiency. The youngest person and first woman to be elected Governor of Alaska, Palin held the office from December 2006 until her resignation in July 2009. She has since endorsed and campaigned for the Tea Party movement, as well as several candidates in the 2010 midterm elections. From the time of her Vice Presidential nomination in 2008, Palin was considered a potential candidate for the 2012 presidential election until she announced in October 2011 that she would not run.

I don't know about anyone else, but if I were presented with both the above as resumes for employment in an objective evaluation, I would be hard pressed to justify choosing the latter over the former. But, then, that's just me: I believe in credible experience, competence, proven results, proven ability to complete tasks, and many of the other qualities the avreage, competent employer would want; but, then again, that's probably just me...

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Oh, and regarding the SNL comment, you obviously seem to have no sense of humor... no wait, you do think Palin is Presidential material; I'm sorry, you do have a sense of humor, after all...

Finally, it is interesting you chose to defend your point not by actually defending tangible merits of Palin, but, rather, attacking the humorous use of "fiction"; it's probably easier to attack a fiction than to defend one...

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[August]

I can't read your post Vienna. For some reason your text keeps coming out white. On the white background it's invisible.

[vienna]

There appears to be some sort of difficulty with the editor on this computer (I don't always use the same computer every time I'm online). I have tried to use the "Remove Text Formatting" feature, but it doesn't seem to work. The Text shows up fine when I view it, but my background color is gray...

Try highlighting the text area by running your mouse over the text; unless you have some better solution, that is the best I can do for now; sorry...

[August]

Originally Posted by vienna

There appears to be some sort of difficulty with the editor on this computer (I don't always use the same computer every time I'm online). I have tried to use the "Remove Text Formatting" feature, but it doesn't seem to work. The Text shows up fine when I view it, but my background color is gray...

Try highlighting the text area by running your mouse over the text; unless you have some better solution, that is the best I can do for now; sorry...

It seems to be working now.

Anyways to address your point, I am not defending Palin. I just don't believe that Biden is any better.

Oh, and regarding the SNL comment, you obviously seem to have no sense of humor... no wait, you do think Palin is Presidential material; I'm sorry, you do have a sense of humor, after all...

I never said that she was presidential material. That's a typical political partisan tactic. First you try to spread falsehoods about a person and when someone calls you on it you accuse them of not having a sense of humor. I had thought better of you.

[vienna]

I never said that she was presidential material. That's a typical political partisan tactic. First you try to spread falsehoods about a person and when someone calls you on it you accuse them of not having a sense of humor. I had thought better of you.

As I have ststed in many other posts, I am not partisan: there is plenty enough incompetence and ineptitude to spread around on all levels and wings of American politics. There is a marked difference between humor and falsehoods: one is a teasing tweak to stave off real partisanship and complacency, the other is a deliberate, outright lie to obfucate the reality of a situation. IOW, lighten up...

As far as someone being Presidential material, anyone who is selected as a Vice-Presidential candidate should have a least the minimum one would expect of a presidential candidate; they are, after all, " a heartbeat away". Having gone through the Watergate period and followed it closely, I really would not like to see another situation where both the President and the Vice-President are forced out of office (Nixon, Agnew) and replaced by two individuals who take those offices, not by election, but by appointment (Ford, Rockerfeller)...

(Although, I must admit I did like Rockerfeller and feel it was a shame he was denied the chance to run for the Presidency as the GOP candidate; he was ostracized by the party for the very things they later embraced in Reagan. Go figure...)

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[August]

Originally Posted by vienna

As I have ststed in many other posts, I am not partisan: there is plenty enough incompetence and ineptitude to spread around on all levels and wings of American politics. There is a marked difference between humor and falsehoods: one is a teasing tweak to stave off real partisanship and complacency, the other is a deliberate, outright lie to obfucate the reality of a situation. IOW, lighten up...

I'm not the one making personal accusations here Vienna. Many people believe that Palin did actually say that. You are just perpetuating it and since apparently you know better then it can be seen as a deliberate perpetuation not a joke like you are now trying to claim.

For the record I think Palin was a very poor choice for Veep for a lot of reasons but at least she had some executive experience. Biden has none and neither did Obama and I think that shows in the poor job the latter has done since he got into the oval office. Biden however, being also a moron, would be far worse. Hopefully Obama will choose a different running mate for his next term.

On the other hand would McCain have done any better? I think probably not. The only leadership experience he has is from the military and even that is pretty thin. His biggest liability however would have been his temper. Not the type of person to have their finger on The Button imo.

[vienna]

I'm not the one making personal accusations here Vienna. Many people believe that Palin did actually say that. You are just perpetuating it and since apparently you know better then it can be seen as a deliberate perpetuation not a joke like you are now trying to claim.

Actually, I think far more people know Palin actually didn't make the remark and do know it is a joke. If I am perpetuating anything, I am perpetuating a joke; kind of like any one who takes Palin seriously...

Biden: elected 6 times to the Senate (15th longest serving at time of resignation); member and Chaiman of the Foreign Relations Committee; Chairman of the Judiciary Committee --- yeah, a real moron to have achieved all that...

McCain: naval aviator (lots of non-leaders there); requested a combat assignment (could have had a cushy desk job); former POW who refused to be released early if his fellow POWs weren't also released (by doing so, also refused to profit from his status as the son of a 4 -star admiral; 2 terms in the House, elected 4 times to the Senate; Chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee; Chairman of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee; Chairman of International Republican Institute...

Yeah, too bad he had no leadership experience and abilities...

Tempermental? Yeah, he is that; but no President can ever just "push the button". Referring back to Nixon and Watergate, as Nixon deteriorated, he at one point gave indications he might seek to "push the button"; Secretary of State Kissinger used his authority to order that any military orders issued by the President had to be run thriough his office for co-approval. The levels of checks and re-checks make it very highly unlikely any one is going to wake up in the morning and unilaterally start WW3...

Maybe we need tempermental; I recall the great effect JFK unleasing the cold wrath of his Attorney-General brother Bobby on the representatives of the USSR during the Cuban Missle Crisis. There are times when "Quiet Diplomacy" is not the best solution...

[Takeda Shingen]

I like you vienna and I admire your moxy, but you do know you're posting in a troll thread, don't you? Don't expect much in the way of discourse. At least not honest discourse.

[August]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I like you vienna and I admire your moxy, but you do know you're posting in a troll thread, don't you? Don't expect much in the way of discourse. At least not honest discourse.

Are you speaking as a moderator mister moderator?