Underwater fireing

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by TorpX

As Platapus said, firing is one thing, hitting is another.

"Fireing" underwater is one thing, "firing" underwater is another.

[TorpX]

Ooops, someone broke the strict forum rules about spelling. That's a fine of 1,000 Quatloos.

[Loudspeaker]

Werner Sobe's tutorials:

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/1280661
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/1280691

[PacificWolf]

When you engaging a target without periscope how can identify is he friend or foe?
Especially in bad weather and at moonles night.

[Rockin Robbins]

If you get sent to Leavenworth busting rocks at the end of your patrol the target was probably the USS Essex.......

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

If you get sent to Leavenworth busting rocks at the end of your patrol the target was probably the USS Essex.......

Who could possibly be dumb enough to do that?

[Loudspeaker]

Originally Posted by PacificWolf

When you engaging a target without periscope how can identify is he friend or foe?
Especially in bad weather and at moonles night.

You can't. But you can make a qualified guess depending on where you are. If you are in Japanese home waters, kill whatever you find.

Btw, I have just conducted my first sonar only attack this evening, inspired partly by my own post above and partly on Sobe's videos. And you know what, guys? The sonar only attack is becoming my favourite method, because I think it's easier to determine range by sonar than by stadimeter, once you get the hang of it.

The funny thing is, it shouldn't be like this. The real skippers avoided it, although at the academy they were instructed to attack by sonar only. Raising the periscope endangered your crew and boat each time you did it, just like it does nowadays.

Get to know the sonar-thingy provided to you by the glorious US navy. It's quite addictive

[magic452]

Sonar only shooting can be a whole lot of fun because you really have to concentrate and you get real satisfaction when you hit.

I use Vector Analysis type of a shot and track the target on the nav. map and shoot from there, at about 90 feet deep.

You may not get an Essex but you can always hope.

Magic

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Loudspeaker

The sonar only attack is becoming my favourite method, because I think it's easier to determine range by sonar than by stadimeter, once you get the hang of it.

The funny thing is, it shouldn't be like this. The real skippers avoided it, although at the academy they were instructed to attack by sonar only. Raising the periscope endangered your crew and boat each time you did it, just like it does nowadays.

Get to know the sonar-thingy provided to you by the glorious US navy. It's quite addictive

The one reason the sonar in-game is better than the stadimeter is it gives exact data to the TDC/Position Keeper when "sent". In reality, the sonar target data gleaned was only as good as the operator who used it. But, in-game by zero'ing in on a target bearing, you'll get an accurate range down to the exact yard. Reality was never that good.

On the other hand, the in-game stadimeter is dependant on several factors to get an accurate "estimate" of range. The Recognition Manual has to have a fairly accurate "height" figure to produce a found range that's close. I took a look at the TMO 2.5 height figures and I see the Hiryu CV still has the mast height at 20 meters. This height figure was in the stock 1.0 version for the Hiryu. At 1200 yards true distance the stadimeter is going to report a range of only 600 yards. Good luck in hitting the Hiryu unless you're so close you'll see the whites of their eye's! Another problem is the way the stadimeter "marks" a height figure. When you draw down the second images waterline to the height reference point, if you strike the mouse just one pixel line adjacent to the exact measured point, the found range can be about 10 yards off (depending on how far away you are from the target). 10 yards off if the target is at a true 1000 yards distance, much more at longer distances (up to 30/40 yards off at 2400 yards or so). Move the waterline off the reference points pixel line more, and you'll increase the error more. Just how wide is a pixel line on the scope screen? There are three pixel lines on each stock Telemeter Division marks. Three lines make up the dark hash marks, from the top side, to the bottom side of the line.

Speaking of the Telemeter Division lines, the ability to have the Telemeter Divisions accurately measure a target was not possible before the Optical Targeting Correction mod. With the scopes providing an accurate field-of-view, and the telemeter divisions scaled to read that FoV, the gamer can use the scope to find range as they did in real life. Just another way to figure manual targeting solutions as the real life Captain's did. Actually I've noticed when using the Telemeter Divisions as a measuring tool and calculating the range through the Omnimeter, the range solution is more accurate than the stadimeter (even with a fairly reasonable height dimension). Mainly due to the short comings of the stadimeter as the game has it.

[CapnScurvy]

Oh, and another problem with the in-game stadimeter is its not "centered" on the periscope view. Depending on which direction you're looking, the stadimeter will produce a range figure error (up to a 20 yards @ 1000 yard true distance, much more when further away). This error is produced between the forward bearing positions and the rear facing bearings.

The stadimeter centering point is placed forward of the actual position from which the camera view originates. Since the camera view is what provides the double image of the target, the error is calculated into the range figure. You won't know it exists unless you have a mission made up with the Mission Editor of 2 of the same targets, at the same distance. One target is positioned to the front of the sub, the other at the rear. The found range will be different between the two. At greater true distances, this error becomes quite large in the difference between the front and rear facing targets.

Add up the other stadimeter short comings (and wrong height dimensions), its easy to see why there are players that say the manual targeting stinks with the game (except for using the sonar system, its dead on accurate). I for one play only with manual targeting. I know the problems with the systems, and will strive to provide the best fixes for them. Sure, you can simply get so close to the target that you can't miss, even with a wrong firing solution. But in real life, no Captain worth the scrambled eggs on his cap would risk is life and crew knowing his targeting system was so screwed up you would use blind luck for accuracy.