5 or 10 meter. Makes a difference?

TorpX · 11-14-11, 07:32 PM

Sailor Steve and Sailor Steve:

OK. You have presented very good evidence. I'll concede it was a commonly used tactic. Still seems a bit odd to me, though.

Quote:

He says "The metacenter is a point where the center of gravity of the boat coincides with the center of buoyancy; a very hazardous point which must be passed quickly. If the center of gravity and the center of buoyancy are coincident and if a wave were to hit the boat from the side, capsizing could occur. Those Hollywood movies where a submarine is shown with decks awash, making an approach on the surface is mostly fiction. That is about where the two centers become coincident and it doesn't take much to roll the boat over. "

O'Kane said much the same thing, which is one of the reasons I had my doubts.

I wonder how much they trimmed down their boats and how much speed they lost?

Quote:

One of the pains in the game, moreso with mods like TMO is it's very difficult to pull off a night surface attack, but it can be done. The problem is getting close enough.............

I agree. Night attacks seem tricky. I may try some of your 'decks awash' methods next time I'm in that situation.

Sailor Steve · 11-14-11, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

Sailor Steve and Sailor Steve:

Both of me, eh?

Quote:

I wonder how much they trimmed down their boats and how much speed they lost?

As I said (and I could be wrong), it's my understanding that it was used for stealth during an attack, and they didn't normally cruise the Pacific in that condition.

TorpX · 11-16-11, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Both of me, eh?

Er, I meant Sailor Steve and Rockin Robbins.

Quote:

As I said (and I could be wrong), it's my understanding that it was used for stealth during an attack, and they didn't normally cruise the Pacific in that condition.

Yeah, I get that, but in the cases I recall, the Captains wanted to be able to move FAST, when the fireworks started. Remember, we had a discussion about how (or if) a fleetboat was able to move at 22 knots (or 23, or whatever it was).

Rockin Robbins · 11-17-11, 09:31 AM

Good point. After sneaking in on my first approach with decks awash to 2000 yards or so, I fire undetected but immediately surface, turn tail and run at high speed. Ususally that results in the escorts doing a pretty perfunctory job of giving half-hearted chase while I get away to end around to the other side of the convoy.

So shoot, helm hard over while the torps are on the way to target. When the boom happens, surface and turn tail at high speed. That's the program on this boat. A boom is a detection and decks awash ceases to be an advantage.

TorpX · 11-19-11, 11:54 PM

What I've done in the past is either cut into the target's track and count on my narrow profile to keep me hidden, or come in on the surface, but submerge before I get too close. In the former case I would not turn away until the torps hit or just before, lest the target see me and evades the attack. (Ships are really way too maneuverable in this game.)

However, I haven't really made enough attacks to have a "standard" proceedure.

scubamatt · 11-20-11, 03:45 AM

For me, making a surface attack usually happens only if I must run on the surface to get into attack range - I encounter a ship moving at medium or fast speed, where I have no chance of getting into an optimum firing position if I submerge.

Decks awash is the best compromise I can make in that case. I run flat out on the surface, getting as close as I dare (this is the point where I catch myself holding my breath in real life). Then it's set my depth at 25 feet (Sargo class), go decks awash and get even closer.

If I'm spotted, I can crash dive fast and evade because the sub is already flooded down. If I'm not spotted I can take my shots, then turn aside and motor away. Like RR said, once something explodes, all bets are off. I figure everyone is looking at me and it's time to beat feet. Surface and sprint (if no close gun threat) or sink like a stone and rig for silent running.

NOTE FOR NEW CAPTAINS: If you've never done the 'decks awash' thing, try doing a crash dive while using time compression. Watch the depth gauge and see how it goes down, then back up a bit and then down..slowly at first...then suddenly plummets. Now surface and do the same thing again, only start from a depth of 25 feet or so (depends on your type of sub). Notice how much faster you are able to get under. Decks awash is also handy if you absolutely must come up for fresh air while there is a serious risk of detection. Come up slowly until you're able to flush your air system (usually a tiny bit deeper than your flooded down depth). You get rid of the CO2 in your boat, but only expose the absolute minimum of your sub to do so. (I don't know if it's TMOwTw or stock, but there is a specific sound effect that sounds like blowers/air rushing when I'm flushing the CO2, and that's my cue that I'm at the correct depth. The CO2 level drops a second or two later.)

jcope · 11-20-11, 11:52 AM

I would like to be able to use the external cam on a few tests to get a feel for how visible I really am in various conditions. I wish there was a way to go to a distant position, pull out binoculars and do try to see the sub. I often wonder whether I'm not spotted because of crew inexperience on the enemy's part or because the sub is really that hard to see.

I will definitely practice the decks awash technique. But it would be good to have a feel for how close to be when it becomes necessary, and when you're too close to even be that exposed.

I have yet to make a surface attack, except an early war shot at some docked ships.

11-17-11, 09:31 AM	#4
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Good point. After sneaking in on my first approach with decks awash to 2000 yards or so, I fire undetected but immediately surface, turn tail and run at high speed. Ususally that results in the escorts doing a pretty perfunctory job of giving half-hearted chase while I get away to end around to the other side of the convoy. So shoot, helm hard over while the torps are on the way to target. When the boom happens, surface and turn tail at high speed. That's the program on this boat. A boom is a detection and decks awash ceases to be an advantage. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

11-19-11, 11:54 PM	#5
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	What I've done in the past is either cut into the target's track and count on my narrow profile to keep me hidden, or come in on the surface, but submerge before I get too close. In the former case I would not turn away until the torps hit or just before, lest the target see me and evades the attack. (Ships are really way too maneuverable in this game.) However, I haven't really made enough attacks to have a "standard" proceedure.

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11-20-11, 03:45 AM	#6
scubamatt Mate Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 51 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	For me, making a surface attack usually happens only if I must run on the surface to get into attack range - I encounter a ship moving at medium or fast speed, where I have no chance of getting into an optimum firing position if I submerge. Decks awash is the best compromise I can make in that case. I run flat out on the surface, getting as close as I dare (this is the point where I catch myself holding my breath in real life). Then it's set my depth at 25 feet (Sargo class), go decks awash and get even closer. If I'm spotted, I can crash dive fast and evade because the sub is already flooded down. If I'm not spotted I can take my shots, then turn aside and motor away. Like RR said, once something explodes, all bets are off. I figure everyone is looking at me and it's time to beat feet. Surface and sprint (if no close gun threat) or sink like a stone and rig for silent running. NOTE FOR NEW CAPTAINS: If you've never done the 'decks awash' thing, try doing a crash dive while using time compression. Watch the depth gauge and see how it goes down, then back up a bit and then down..slowly at first...then suddenly plummets. Now surface and do the same thing again, only start from a depth of 25 feet or so (depends on your type of sub). Notice how much faster you are able to get under. Decks awash is also handy if you absolutely must come up for fresh air while there is a serious risk of detection. Come up slowly until you're able to flush your air system (usually a tiny bit deeper than your flooded down depth). You get rid of the CO2 in your boat, but only expose the absolute minimum of your sub to do so. (I don't know if it's TMOwTw or stock, but there is a specific sound effect that sounds like blowers/air rushing when I'm flushing the CO2, and that's my cue that I'm at the correct depth. The CO2 level drops a second or two later.)

11-20-11, 11:52 AM	#7
jcope Bosun Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 66 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	I would like to be able to use the external cam on a few tests to get a feel for how visible I really am in various conditions. I wish there was a way to go to a distant position, pull out binoculars and do try to see the sub. I often wonder whether I'm not spotted because of crew inexperience on the enemy's part or because the sub is really that hard to see. I will definitely practice the decks awash technique. But it would be good to have a feel for how close to be when it becomes necessary, and when you're too close to even be that exposed. I have yet to make a surface attack, except an early war shot at some docked ships.