Map contact turned off

[sharkbit]

The problem I've always had with "map contacts off/on" is it is too extreme.
With them on, you get GPS like positions of your targets.
With them off, your workload goes way up. Not only do you have to conn your sub, you have to do all the plotting and inputting data into the TDC as well, where a real sub had various people doing those duties.

Some nice middle ground would be nice.

I know there is an "Assisted Plotting" mod for SH3. While not perfect, it does get away from the two extremes. I think I've read where it may work or has been adapted for SH4, but I seem to remember issues with it if used in SH4-I'm not sure.

Personally, I play with contacts on in both SH3 and SH4. I don't think I'm quite ready to play with them off just yet. One day perhaps.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

I know there is an "Assisted Plotting" mod for SH3. While not perfect, it does get away from the two extremes. I think I've read where it may work or has been adapted for SH4, but I seem to remember issues with it if used in SH4-I'm not sure.

I tried it, and it caused crashes. I never did find out why. I still use the one in SH3.

On the other hand there is always MOBO.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=225

[Flaxpants]

Considering the minimal amount of time I get to play the game, this thread is putting me off the idea of turning the Contacts off!

I have been using RFB 2.0 as I'm sure many of you do. The 'Map Contacts On' is made marginally more difficult due to the fact that the target disappears from the nav-map when using the higher zoom levels, meaning that you cannot get an inch perfect fix (you do not get the actual boat silhouette on the map, only the square). You also only get a rough approximation of his position from the attack map.

A minor point, just thought I'd mention it for those that didn't know, which is probably not many of you.

[Diopos]

Map contacts off, period.
It prolongs the game's life and cuts down on other entertainment costs!



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[Flaxpants]

Originally Posted by Diopos

Map contacts off, period.
It prolongs the game's life and cuts down on other entertainment costs!



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Map Contacts On = More time in the pub.

[Bubblehead1980]

I find map contacts off to be more of a challenge but very tedious in addition to that fact that your crew does not distinguish between radar contacts when they detact them so you wont know if you have an SD contact or a SJ contact.There is a mod that removes all contacts on map except for aircraft.

I find a great compromise for realism is leaving cams off but contacts on.Stock contacts are bit much because it lets you know too much info just looking at them TMO's are all black suares dots and lines and only display a name after you ID them.

The sonar lines counter balance the terrible ability of even the "best" sonar operator in the game to keep track when you are submerged.


Having said that, once in a while I like to patrol with cams and contacts off for fun.Yesterday loaded up the mod the only displays planes on the map and went to sea in Jan 1944 out of Fremantle with Gato Class sub(USS Gato actually) running TMO 2.1 with RSRD. I was patroling the Celebes Sea chokepoint below Davao, Phillippines when radar detected a convoy of six ships with 2 escorts.This lead to a 2 1/2 day (game time) battle(2 days in RL, about 8 hours of game time total) battle with multiple attacks submerged and on surface and several tough depth chargings.The convoy was six tankers(3 large, two medium one small) and two very tough Type C escorts.I had two stern Mark 14's left and about a week later in same area encountered 3 large nippon maru tankers(10,000 tons each) and using my last two fish attacked.The tanker was loaded with fuel obviously because it burst into a fireball and sank in about 15 minutes.

The escort's counter attack was rough, pushing me to 400 feet at one point, draining my battery down to 30 percent (due to constant stop and go runs to avoid huge patterns of charges) the final evasion took about 3 hours real time.Doing so without the sonar lines you get with contacts on is tough but rewarding and exciting.

I made it back to fremantle with little of 54,000 tons down in one patrol.Seven tankers plus a lone merchant I sent to the bottom earlier in the patrol.


Anyway, once you are sure you understand about tracking, attacking, evading without contacts, I suggest give it a try if you have time, its a blast but definitely tough.

[I'm goin' down]

I started 4 hours ago and just sank an Akita Maru with 3/6 torpedoes at 2,700 yds, with map contacts disabled. The target changed course after my crew announced that they had spotted her. I am using the OTC mod by CapnScurvy. During the attack run, I stopped the game to water plants on my deck, watered part of my lawn that looked thirsty, cut up a chicken, preppred it for frying, and cooked it along with two wings and two drumsticks in my brand, spankin new electric fryer. Plus, I cleaned the kitchen and managed to eat some of what I fried. I also paused the game once to review the OTC tutorial re establishing Aob.

Conclusion. Plan on spending a lots of time if map contacts are disabled. Plus, you never are sure your set up is correct because there is no icon on the attack map to verify accuracy. But, it is a kick to chase and hit a target, as you get a chance to see all of your previous experience come to fruition.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Flaxpants

I have been using RFB 2.0 as I'm sure many of you do. The 'Map Contacts On' is made marginally more difficult due to the fact that the target disappears from the nav-map when using the higher zoom levels, meaning that you cannot get an inch perfect fix

I haven't play RFB. Interesting to know; it sounds about how I have mine set up.

[Rockin Robbins]

Agreed. I have always contended that map contacts on TMO is the most accurate way to go, if you have a surface radar equipped boat. Their data was actually more accurate than the GPS like plotting in the game because the digital nature of our chart results in binning.

It is ludicrous to give up your ability to track airplanes as well as surface targets. It doesn't make sense that the captain does all the work while the crew trims their nails.You know, you might cross a street with a bag over your head and survive. But whether or not you did survive the foolish experiment it would have no bearing on whether you could be trusted to cross the street under normal circumstances. The most you would get is bragging rights for doing something difficult and stupid.

This game is not moddable to the extent of letting us make needed changes. In a game written from scratch, I would have an accuracy envelope for all methods. For instance, maybe (and I'm no expert here. Perhaps it was actually more or less accurate) sonar ranging was accurate to +-10%. The sonar would get a range, which would be modified by a random number between -10% and +10% and plotted thusly. Stadimeter? How about +-30% if you're good But you can see where I'm going: random justifiable error in map plotting. In SH4? Not possible.

So I just come back to TMO with contacts on. It most accurately reproduces the quality of data available to submarine captains. It's not perfect, but neither is any of the rest of the game.

[I'm goin' down]

The OTC mod has an option for American radar from the beginning of the War. Planes show up on radar, but the radar blip moves accross the screen quickly. When I see a radar blip moving too fast for a ship, I dive or get ready to dive.

My problem with map contacts enabled is that the blips never disappear, as they would do if being tracked via radar. When map contacts are disabled, I use sonar to plot the target's course. How do I do that? (See below.)

For speed, first I measure the time it takes a target's bow to pass 0 degrees on the periscope. Second, translate the measurement into yards per second, and third, calculate speed by multiplying yds. per second x 180 (i.e. multiplying by 3 minutes). Gee, where did I figure speed calculation and map plotting with map contacts disabled out? How about Warner Sobe's sonar only tutorial and Double R's (you gotta love CapnScurvy!) Sonar Only - By God tutorial? If you look, you might be able to find a thread that explains how to do it. (Rofl.)

[Diopos]

The "thing" is to get target's speed vector and range from "passive" sensors (hydrophone or distant optical observations). When you are close enough to ID the target of course you can "stad" or measure the time the it takes the target to pass the "wire" etc. The trick/problem is that when you start getting optical details on your target any drastic change of your positioning maybe difficult. I think that most of the maneuvering of a WW2 sub would be on the limit of the target's optical or radar range (later in the war). In a sense it is classical (pre-modern) "positional" naval warfare. The captain's decisions hours before the final approach may have already decided the success or not of the encounter!

Bearings-only-TMA anyone?

Beerings are on me !!!

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[Daniel Prates]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

It doesn't make sense that the captain does all the work while the crew trims their nails.

Exactely my point of view. The way I see it, the crime is in that 'contacts on' make all targets appear in "show truth" mode, constantly updating every second, for all targets.

The best way to correct it would be an option where any given contact in sight of sensor could be drawn in the map when you requested it.