Texas execution 'violated international law', UN says - Page 3

Onkel Neal · 07-08-11, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

If an US citizen brutally raped and murdered a teen abroad I have no problem with that nation putting him to death. Sorry.

Mike, I don't think they are arguing against that. Their point is, in this case, the Mexican was arrested and tried and he didn't tell them he was a Mexican national until after the trial, so they didn't call the Mexican counsel and set up someone from that body to defend him.

Texas is not bound by a foreign court's ruling. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2008 that the treaty was not binding on the states and that the president does not have the authority to order states to review cases of the then 51 foreign nationals on death row in the U.S.

So, that's it. Obviously, the US Supreme Court says the International Court of Justice, has no authority in the US. That's good enough for me, I'm an American citizen, not an "International citizen." The treaty is not binding, and therefore was not violated.

Onkel Neal · 07-08-11, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpy117

but Im not surprised Texas would do something like this. I mean two words: Illegal Mexican. Why would they not throw the book at him?

Ha, that say more about you than it does Texas. I guess you are implying Texas is hot to grab and execute illegals.

Oh wait, his child victim was Hispanic, what do you say, Texas is eager to bring justice to killers of Hispanic children?

Sailor Steve · 07-08-11, 11:38 PM

I'm confused. The trial and conviction happened in 1994. The man has been sitting on death row for almost 17 years. Have any of the appeals involved Mexican council? While he may be officially illegal he has been living in the United States since he was a small boy. I'm not sure how any of that ties together, but no one has mentioned it, so I thought I would. Has Mexico been protesting the conviction since it was decided, or is this a new thing. As said, it's not like he was dragged out and lynched.

No answers, just questions.

Krauter · 07-08-11, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I'm confused. The trial and conviction happened in 1994. The man has been sitting on death row for almost 17 years. Have any of the appeals involved Mexican council? While he may be officially illegal he has been living in the United States since he was a small boy. I'm not sure how any of that ties together, but no one has mentioned it, so I thought I would. Has Mexico been protesting the conviction since it was decided, or is this a new thing. As said, it's not like he was dragged out and lynched.

No answers, just questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krauter

It says in the article the actual murder and rape occurred in 1994... So what does that mean? He sat in a cell for 17 years and then a Governor said fry him?

I can understand if the incident occurred last year say or recently and they quickly called for the death penalty, but the guys been in a cell for 17 years..

TLAM Strike · 07-08-11, 11:52 PM

Soooo.... foreigners have the right of Extraterritoriality in the US?

If you are in the US you are subject to both its laws and protections.

He violated American law, he was punished under American law. Now that he has paid his debit to America he may return to Mexico.

Freiwillige · 07-09-11, 12:11 AM

From what I understand, the issue is not that he was denied Mexican counsel, It is the fact he never was informed that he could seek it in the first place.

But then again nobody on our side knew he was a Mexican national in the first place until after the conviction so Mexican council was never recommended.

Just clarification of the facts, are they correct?

gimpy117 · 07-09-11, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Ha, that say more about you than it does Texas. I guess you are implying Texas is hot to grab and execute illegals.

Oh wait, his child victim was Hispanic, what do you say, Texas is eager to bring justice to killers of Hispanic children?

when i say: "throw the book" I was implying about the fact they never allowed someone from his home country to represent him. and it makes me wonder if somebody else from a country like in Europe (for example) would be given the same treatment.

August · 07-09-11, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

So, that's it. Obviously, the US Supreme Court says the International Court of Justice, has not authority in the US. That's good enough for me, I'm an American citizen, not an "International citizen." The treaty is not binding, and therefore was not violated.

This ^

Also I find no validity in the argument that this would increase the chance of someone else doing the same thing to an American. Any foreign nation who finds it convenient to deny an American similar rights will do so regardless of this case.

Anthony W. · 07-09-11, 12:27 AM

My feelings will get me chewed out.

But... TO TEXAS!

You DO NOT kill Americans and get away with it.

Sailor Steve · 07-09-11, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krauter

Your original quote said 7 years.

I didn't claim to be original, just backing you up.

And the question is still valid, and needs answering. Where was Mexico and the internation court in 1994? 2000?

Krauter · 07-09-11, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

My feelings will get me chewed out.

But... TO TEXAS!

You DO NOT kill Americans and get away with it.

I don't understand? When did Texas kill an American? They killed a Mexican National....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Your original quote said 7 years.

I didn't claim to be original, just backing you up.

And the question is still valid, and needs answering. Where was Mexico and the internation court in 1994? 2000?

Looked at your post, did the math in my head, came up to what was in mine, redid the math then thought d"oh!

Sailor Steve · 07-09-11, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krauter

I don't understand? When did Texas kill an American? They killed a Mexican National....

He meant the killer killed an American, and Texas didn't let him get away with it. But was she an American? I didn't check her citizenship. On the other hand my personal feeling is that no one should let anyone get away with murder.

Quote:

Looked at your post, did the math in my head, came up to what was in mine, redid the math then thought d"oh!

Let's be honest. You said it first and I wasn't paying attention.

Krauter · 07-09-11, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

He meant the killer killed an American, and Texas didn't let him get away with it. But was she an American? I didn't check her citizenship. On the other hand my personal feeling is that no one should let anyone get away with murder.

Aah, I was kind of confused there for a sec.
Thanks for clearing that up!

Anthony W. · 07-09-11, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But was she an American? I didn't check her citizenship.

If she wasn't then I'm angry and both Texas and Mexico.

Krauter · 07-09-11, 03:39 AM

Can you spellcheck please? I don't mean to be a grammar nazi but I don't understand what you're driving at..

Your angry and Texas and Mexico?

Your angry at both Texas and Mexico?...

07-08-11, 11:38 PM	#33
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I'm confused. The trial and conviction happened in 1994. The man has been sitting on death row for almost 17 years. Have any of the appeals involved Mexican council? While he may be officially illegal he has been living in the United States since he was a small boy. I'm not sure how any of that ties together, but no one has mentioned it, so I thought I would. Has Mexico been protesting the conviction since it was decided, or is this a new thing. As said, it's not like he was dragged out and lynched. No answers, just questions. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

07-08-11, 11:52 PM	#35
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Soooo.... foreigners have the right of Extraterritoriality in the US? If you are in the US you are subject to both its laws and protections. He violated American law, he was punished under American law. Now that he has paid his debit to America he may return to Mexico. __________________

07-09-11, 12:27 AM	#39
Anthony W. Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 850 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	My feelings will get me chewed out. But... TO TEXAS! You DO NOT kill Americans and get away with it. __________________ Sunken Mustangs Proud Ford Mustang owner "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" - Admiral David Farragut Run silent - run deep - keep the baffles clear - targets front and center. Private pilot and history buff

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07-09-11, 12:11 AM	#36
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	From what I understand, the issue is not that he was denied Mexican counsel, It is the fact he never was informed that he could seek it in the first place. But then again nobody on our side knew he was a Mexican national in the first place until after the conviction so Mexican council was never recommended. Just clarification of the facts, are they correct?