Greece general strike: Unions act amid cuts debate

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

My daughter is going there on holiday next month...I might give 2 or 3 grand and have her buy me a holiday villa with a pool

Ha,Ha great price

[Jimbuna]

Must have four bedrooms and a kebab maker on the rear patio.

[Gerald]

Police have fired tear gas in running battles with stone-throwing youths in Athens, where a 48-hour general strike is being held against a parliamentary vote on tough austerity measures.

Thousands of protesters have gathered outside parliament in the capital where public transport has ground to a halt.

PM George Papandreou has said that only his 28bn-euro (£25bn) austerity plan would get Greece back on its feet.

If the package is not approved, Greece could run out of money within weeks.

Without a new plan in place, the EU and IMF say they will withhold 12bn euros of loans which Greece needs to repay debts due in mid-July.

'Declared war'

More than 5,000 police officers were deployed in the centre of Athens as the protesters marched towards parliament.

The rally started peacefully, but escalated into running skirmishes on the fringes of the main demonstration.

Hundreds of protesters with faces covered by scarves or gas-masks started throwing stones, debris and bottles at the police in one corner of the central Syntagma Square.

Police fired tear gas and stun grenades to keep them back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13935400


Note: Update Record, 28 June 2011 Last updated at 17:05 GMT

[MH]

I don't know what to think about this whole deal.

Another victim of communism?

[Gerald]

You mean socialism? Leaving the euro would probably be a good option for the whole Union (EU) and then get them to start from scratch, replace the entire government .... and make sure that the people working after age 50 to get tax money, and take a harsh austerity program a few years.

[MH]

Some economist here said that Greece was never really ready to join EU with its economy.
Its was just politics.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by MH

Some economist here said that Greece was never really ready to join EU with its economy.
Its was just politics.

True, I think so

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by MH

Some economist here said that Greece was never really ready to join EU with its economy.
Its was just politics.

Not just Greece apparently.

[Bakkels]

Originally Posted by MH

Some economist here said that Greece was never really ready to join EU with its economy.
Its was just politics.

Yup. Too many countries were able to join the EU way too easy. The EU on a whole I think isn't a bad concept, it just should have been handled very differently. (Ofcourse I realise that that is easy to say in hindsight)

If we want the EU to work, it should have way more economical power. I know a lot of people wouldn't agree, but if you want a European Union that actually works, then for god's sake give it more power over economies.
If a country doesn't want to sacrifice it's economical autonomy, than it shouldn't join / have joined in the first place. In fact, my belief is that the EU's core business should be economics in the first place.

Here's how I see it; either shut down the entire EU concept (aside from the Euro and the open borders; liquidating the euro would cost a lot, and it actually made us a lot of money up to now. The problem is not the euro as a currency; it's the countries that shouldn't have been allowed to participate in the first place that make it a costly project)

But IF you want to go forward with the EU:
- Uphold the rules that were set in the first place; a lot of countries
have been violating rules regarding inflation and debt for years
without any serious penalties.

- Move the lot to Brussel permanently. The situation as it is now, is
ridiculous. In fact, I'm surprised non-European forum members never
made fun of us for that. They would be so right.
A breakdown of the EU parliament:
It's Secretary-General resides in Luxemburg, most of
the activities of the Parliament and it's members work from Brussel.
But each month the four-day general meeting of the Parliament is
taking place in Strassbourg, France. So each month, six removal vans
(or how do you call them? You know, the U-Haul things) transport
3700 boxes with documents to Strassbourg. And 700 officials
travel either by plane, car or train. Total annual costs of these
ridiculous back-and-forth travels: 250 million euro's. All because the
French insisted on the plenary sessions being held in France

- Let the EU concentrate on monetary business and economical laws
that influence other member states. It was what the EU was meant
for in the first place. Don't meddle with laws in member's countries
that don't have anything to do with Europe as a whole.

- Completely quit the agricultural subsidies. At present, 70% (!) of the
EU's 135 billion budget goes to subsidies to (small) farmers.
In Europe, small farmers have no economical reason of existance.
The only way they can make profit is because of these subsidies. I'm
sorry to say it, but once again it was France (and Spain) that insisted
on this, as they have a lot of small-scale agriculture. But it's an unfair
competitive advantage. Which does three bad things: it keeps down
Africa, a continent that could make a lot of money on producing and
exporting food. It creates an unfair competitive advantage against
American, Russian and other farmers. And as I said above; it
gobbles up 70% of the EU's budget! That doesn't make any sense at
all...

Well there's my 2 cents anyway. Sorry for the wall of text. Let's just see what will happen in the years to come. Maybe it will take a real crisis (like a country going bankrupt) to wake up the EU and make it restructure itself. Perhaps we'll be doomed and everything goes to hell!!! Well I'm a cynic and an optimist at the same time; a solution will always be found. The problem is, most of the time it'll be a short-term solution. But that seems to be our fate as human beings trying to govern on a large scale; when push comes to shove, short term will always > long term...
Europe as a whole won't go bankrupt, but I hope to see the EU becoming more pragmatic, and less political.

[joea]

A great deal of ignorance on this thread.

[Gerald]

The Greek parliament has voted in favour of a drastic package of austerity measures intended to save the country from defaulting on its debts.

The proposed tax hikes and spending cuts have been deeply unpopular with the Greek public.

A nationwide 48-hour strike is under way and violent clashes are continuing in the streets of the capital, Athens.

Greece is heavily in debt and the package is needed to win the latest tranche of a 110bn-euro (£98bn) loan.

MPs passed the measures by 155 votes to 138.

They will hold a second vote on Thursday aimed at changing a law allowing the package to be implemented.
'No time to step back'

Ahead of the vote, PM George Papandreou urged MPs to approve the package by consensus.

He had faced wavering support from within his governing Panhellenic Socialist Movement (Pasok), which has a slim majority, with 155 seats out of 300 in parliament. But in the end, only one Pasok deputy voted against the package.

Mr Papandreou says his austerity plan is the only way to get Greece back on its feet.

"We must avoid the country's collapse at all costs. Now is not the time to step back," he told deputies.

Were his 28bn-euro austerity package to be rejected, Greece could run out of money within weeks, as the EU and the International Monetary Fund want the measures implemented before they release more funds to help Greece pay off its vast debts.

But tensions are running high in Greece, where unions are angry that the government's austerity programme will impose taxes on those earning the minimum wage, following months of other cuts that have seen unemployment rise to more than 16%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13960947


Note: Update Record, 29 June 2011 Last updated at 13:40 GMT

[Hottentot]

Originally Posted by joea

A great deal of ignorance on this thread.

Fortunately not anymore.

[Gerald]

As in many cases, measures too little too late, and the Greeks have been aware of this long time.... and that there would come a day when they are forced to produce "balls" but they are dependent on other countries within the EU, in order to continue the journey.