America vs China: Who does Economic Policy better?

[August]

Originally Posted by MH

Seems Chinese have adopted best of two words.

How you figure? They routinely jail political dissidents and massacre their own people. That's no world this American would want to live in.

[MH]

Originally Posted by August

How you figure? They routinely jail political dissidents and massacre their own people. That's no world this American would want to live in.

Was talking about economy only.
I would not like to live there as well but the chinese discipline maybe is their advantage in this case.

[Betonov]

I'd vote for the American system. Free market has a way of adjusting itself, the problem with today are greedy CEO's that have too many friends in high places and a banking system that draws money out of thin air.
A planned economy can't react fast enough to changes. The Chineese are lucky they live in a vast country with an enormeus workforce and apart from some resources, they don't need to import a lot. A smaller nation that would rely on trade would go bankrupt since it takes politicians a whole generation to figure out times have changed, while an entropenour just looks at the business page in the daily newspaper.

You want an example: Yugoslavia, once it was a big country that was self sufficient. We produced what we needed, Slovenian goods were hot goods on the Yugoslavian market. Then 91' came, we began trading globally, but our goods were good for a country that had almost no import (shun the western capitalism and their goods made with slave labor), then foreign goods came, better quality, better prices and domestic companies refused to adapt, since they had no idea how to adapt. Only countries founded after 91' somehow managed.
Planned economies fail in the longrun in a fast changing world of today

[MH]

Originally Posted by Betonov

I'd vote for the American system. Free market has a way of adjusting itself, the problem with today are greedy CEO's that have too many friends in high places and a banking system that draws money out of thin air.
A planned economy can't react fast enough to changes. The Chineese are lucky they live in a vast country with an enormeus workforce and apart from some resources, they don't need to import a lot. A smaller nation that would rely on trade would go bankrupt since it takes politicians a whole generation to figure out times have changed, while an entropenour just looks at the business page in the daily newspaper.

You want an example: Yugoslavia, once it was a big country that was self sufficient. We produced what we needed, Slovenian goods were hot goods on the Yugoslavian market. Then 91' came, we began trading globally, but our goods were good for a country that had almost no import (shun the western capitalism and their goods made with slave labor), then foreign goods came, better quality, better prices and domestic companies refused to adapt, since they had no idea how to adapt. Only countries founded after 91' somehow managed.
Planned economies fail in the longrun in a fast changing world of today

Chinese economy is profit driven as well but no greedy CEOs
People get rewarded but reasonably for achievements and get kicked in ass for failure.

You talking about western products back in 91.
Its 2011 and most of the stuff has this "designed in switzerland made in china thing" on it.

[Oberon]

China is tricky. On the outside it looks like a massive success story and as strong as an ox. On the inside though it's creaking and full of band-aids over holes in the dam. Hu knows this, he knows that he has to adjust the export primary market into a more balanced market, bring the Yuan up in strength gently and feed the revenue generated into improvement projects for the inner-country. If this is not done and the gap between the interior and exterior runs out of control, then it's second revolution time.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

How you figure? They routinely jail political dissidents and massacre their own people. That's no world this American would want to live in.

Our welath today and our living ways goes at the cost of millions of people in parts of thje world usuallynot being shown on our TV screens. We do noit kill so much with our own hands - we let others carry out the killing on behalf of our killing. Your precious republic as well as our own republics in europe are as absived and cause as much if not more bloodshed and suffering, like open tyrannies. Your republic as well as ours are not demcoratically controlled, but lobby-run and lobby-dominated, they are oligarchies and plutocracies. what historical founding documents once wanted our countries to be, is one thing, and no longer of much relevance for desxcribing the status quo today. What our countries are today is something completely different.

Elections do not really change muich in the ruling of banks and corporations and their lobbies. we can get rid of them only by the same way open tyrannies get rid of by their people: by violence and revolutions.

We are as blood-dripping as the totalitarian regimes of the past have been. We are just ore clever in hiding our subpression and exploitation of others, and we do the killing via proxies.

Africa. South America. Oil-exporting Middle East. Proxy wars, support for dictatorships as well as parties in civil wars that guarantee(d) ressource interests for foreign business companies. Our Western democracies act as brutal and bloody than their claimed totalitarian counterparts and criminal rogue nations. The money that our wealth is founded on, is blood money.

And that is no history only, that is still the present.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And that is no history only, that is still the present.

Ever the pessimist eh Sky? Well remember that we're discussing America vs China here, not America/Europe vs China. We've managed to maintain our system for going on three centuries. China's present system on the other hand has been in existence for less than one. Only time will tell if their way is even stable let alone superior to ours.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by August

Ever the pessimist eh Sky? Well remember that we're discussing America vs China here, not America/Europe vs China. We've managed to maintain our system for going on three centuries. China's present system on the other hand has been in existence for less than one. Only time will tell if their way is even stable let alone superior to ours.

It was stable for the last 3 centuries, because the money was standardized on a precius metal and banks could only loan what they actually had. Today's situation is BS and it wont last. Best case scenario, it will revert to what it once was, but what we and you have today is as stable as a sugar cube on a rainy day. There's only a small cup over it and that cup is aggresive growth, impossible in finite resource world. One day that cup will disapear. Plus the politicians on both sides of the Atlantic are nothing more than a bad joke. They're not going to do nothing about it.

Our system (US and Europe have the same system) may be superior, but it's sick with cancer

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Ever the pessimist eh Sky? Well remember that we're discussing America vs China here, not America/Europe vs China. We've managed to maintain our system for going on three centuries. China's present system on the other hand has been in existence for less than one. Only time will tell if their way is even stable let alone superior to ours.

China has been the richest and most powerful trading power of this planet all human history knows of, they have been that for over two millenia. Compared to that, the communist party's experiment is nothing but a brief excursion so far.

The point is, for almost all known part of it's history ranging back over 3 and a half, some count even 5 millenia, the Chinese societies have been totalitarian ones.

I think that dwarfs America's 2 and a half century of existence, parts of that include the Indians massacre, slavery, and racism. Not to count modern wars for strategic influence, ressources control, and control of financial traffic patterns.

And no, I am not pessimistic, usually. I am a realist, and I do not close the eyes before messages just because I wished I would not get them. That includes the bad ones, of course.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I think that dwarfs America's 2 and a half century of existence,

If China was still a monarchy or a republic then you might have a point but when Mao and his gang seized power in 1949 they totally changed their economic system.

Part of the test for success is longevity and the present Chinese system has not been in existence long enough to prove anything.