Religion thread #58,934

GoldenRivet · 05-12-11, 10:29 PM

I think the problem is - across the board - religious, athiest, non denominational, liberal, democrat, conservative, republican, muslim, jew, black, white etc etc.... they all worry too damned much about the other guy's business.

Ducimus · 05-12-11, 10:41 PM

The problem, the real core of the problem, is this weird thing about people. If they're a fan of something, they want to share their fandom. Or if their into something, then its the best thing to be into, because their into it.

Atheism vindictivness I think is borne from religious ramrodding. The problem is, they're not punching back at an equivalent level of the original punch, so to speak. So they end up being louder then the ------- who got them pissed off to begin with.

In the end, when it comes to religion, no matter what ones stance is on it, I think this is the best thought to adapt:

Whatever your stance is on religion, its a lot like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better, fine. Just don't ask anyone to wear your shoes.

edit: If people would just keep their ---- to themselves, the world would be a much nicer place.

Bakkels · 05-13-11, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

The problem, the real core of the problem, is this weird thing about people. If they're a fan of something, they want to share their fandom. Or if their into something, then its the best thing to be into, because their into it.

Atheism vindictivness I think is borne from religious ramrodding. The problem is, they're not punching back at an equivalent level of the original punch, so to speak. So they end up being louder then the ------- who got them pissed off to begin with.

In the end, when it comes to religion, no matter what ones stance is on it, I think this is the best thought to adapt:

Whatever your stance is on religion, its a lot like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better, fine. Just don't ask anyone to wear your shoes.

edit: If people would just keep their ---- to themselves, the world would be a much nicer place.

Wait, what's this... I agree with Ducimus? Well I guess I do!

Seriously though, I think your last sentence nails it.
I don't believe in (a) God, but I also can't say I'm an atheist; I can't prove he doesn't exist, so I can't be sure.
But I gotta agree with what some people already said here; some Atheists can be just as aggressive in bringing their point across.
Like Ducimus said, people need to keep their beliefs for themselves. The only time I feel the need to argue about religion is when it interferes with politics. Aside from that, I say live and let live.

razark · 05-13-11, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakkels

I don't believe in (a) God, but I also can't say I'm an atheist; I can't prove he doesn't exist, so I can't be sure.

Atheism addresses what you believe: If you don't believe a god exists, you are an atheist. If you believe a god exists, you are a theist.

Agnosticism addresses what you know: If you hold that you cannot know for certain whether or not god exists, you are agnostic. If you hold that the question of gods' existence can be known, you are gnostic.

If you know god doesn't exist, you would be a gnostic atheist. If you believe god exists but that it can't be proven, you would be an agnostic theist. There is a distinction, but in common usage it gets largely misused.

Growler · 05-13-11, 11:59 AM

May I introduce Secular Humanism?

This is probably the closest description of where I stand.

I've read this thread, and seen a lot of people whom I consider colleagues and friends chime in with their thoughts. Some of those thoughts I agree with; others, were we sitting at a bar or a coffee joint, would lead to, what I think would be a tremendously fun discussion.

Religion is not for me. Belief in a Supreme Creator does not fit with my view of the world. It's what works for me.

I was raised in a strict Catholic household in a Catholic neighborhood, went to Catholic schools. When my parents split up, I was ten. Once word of the divorce got round the community, my sister and I became social pariahs from that day forward, largely due to the Catholic parents passing judgement on my family's situation, and passing that judgement along to their kids. Our parents were divorced, which the Catholic church didn't take a real cheery view on, which somehow made us kids less worthy of Christian kindness, rather than more in need of it. It didn't end with our peers; the good Sisters that ran the school were equally determined to punish us for our parents' transgressions. For whatever reasons, we were to be subjugated rather than saved.

OK, fast forward thirty years. As an adult, I understand things a little better. Every religion, every faith, is comprised of people. People are, inevitably, going to screw things up. We can't help it. Also, like any other religious structure, there are those who preach the words, and those who perform the words. I lived in a community that loudly preached, but poorly performed. I've seen the other side of that, where the community was outwardly very religiously quiet - probably due to the sheer exhaustion of working their tails off to help their neighbors.

I worked with a fellow who once told me, "Did you ever notice that the people who speak the loudest about being 'Good Christians"... aren't?" I have never found reason not to disagree with him on that thought. And the same holds true for any religion in the place of Christian.

I've explored many religions, with varying intensity. One of those I looked at introduced me to the concept of the Wiccan Rede. I don't hold with it; much of it is spellcasting and other silliness. But the final lines are nothing more than a re-telling of the timeless Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." The Wiccan Rede closes with, "An[sic] Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will." I don't follow any faith, but those words are pretty clear enough, and good practice.

Are there militant believers of every stripe? Absolutely. Those who seek to impose their beliefs upon others, and who seek to legitimize those beliefs by way of legislation, are a clear and present danger to the safety of ALL religions and ALL faiths in any given country. Sharia law as the law of a land should terrify any reasonable human being. Christian law as the law of a land should do the same. Religion is a PERSONAL choice, and should remain in the purvey of individuals. It is not the responsibility of the state to mandate religion.

MH · 05-13-11, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Growler

Are there militant believers of every stripe? Absolutely. Those who seek to impose their beliefs upon others, and who seek to legitimize those beliefs by way of legislation, are a clear and present danger to the safety of ALL religions and ALL faiths in any given country. Sharia law as the law of a land should terrify any reasonable human being. Christian law as the law of a land should do the same. Religion is a PERSONAL choice, and should remain in the purvey of individuals. It is not the responsibility of the state to mandate religion.

05-12-11, 10:29 PM	#1
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	I think the problem is - across the board - religious, athiest, non denominational, liberal, democrat, conservative, republican, muslim, jew, black, white etc etc.... they all worry too damned much about the other guy's business. __________________

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05-12-11, 10:41 PM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	The problem, the real core of the problem, is this weird thing about people. If they're a fan of something, they want to share their fandom. Or if their into something, then its the best thing to be into, because their into it. Atheism vindictivness I think is borne from religious ramrodding. The problem is, they're not punching back at an equivalent level of the original punch, so to speak. So they end up being louder then the ------- who got them pissed off to begin with. In the end, when it comes to religion, no matter what ones stance is on it, I think this is the best thought to adapt: Whatever your stance is on religion, its a lot like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better, fine. Just don't ask anyone to wear your shoes. edit: If people would just keep their ---- to themselves, the world would be a much nicer place.

05-13-11, 11:59 AM	#5
Growler A long way from the sea Join Date: May 2005 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,913 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	May I introduce Secular Humanism? This is probably the closest description of where I stand. I've read this thread, and seen a lot of people whom I consider colleagues and friends chime in with their thoughts. Some of those thoughts I agree with; others, were we sitting at a bar or a coffee joint, would lead to, what I think would be a tremendously fun discussion. Religion is not for me. Belief in a Supreme Creator does not fit with my view of the world. It's what works for me. I was raised in a strict Catholic household in a Catholic neighborhood, went to Catholic schools. When my parents split up, I was ten. Once word of the divorce got round the community, my sister and I became social pariahs from that day forward, largely due to the Catholic parents passing judgement on my family's situation, and passing that judgement along to their kids. Our parents were divorced, which the Catholic church didn't take a real cheery view on, which somehow made us kids less worthy of Christian kindness, rather than more in need of it. It didn't end with our peers; the good Sisters that ran the school were equally determined to punish us for our parents' transgressions. For whatever reasons, we were to be subjugated rather than saved. OK, fast forward thirty years. As an adult, I understand things a little better. Every religion, every faith, is comprised of people. People are, inevitably, going to screw things up. We can't help it. Also, like any other religious structure, there are those who preach the words, and those who perform the words. I lived in a community that loudly preached, but poorly performed. I've seen the other side of that, where the community was outwardly very religiously quiet - probably due to the sheer exhaustion of working their tails off to help their neighbors. I worked with a fellow who once told me, "Did you ever notice that the people who speak the loudest about being 'Good Christians"... aren't?" I have never found reason not to disagree with him on that thought. And the same holds true for any religion in the place of Christian. I've explored many religions, with varying intensity. One of those I looked at introduced me to the concept of the Wiccan Rede. I don't hold with it; much of it is spellcasting and other silliness. But the final lines are nothing more than a re-telling of the timeless Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." The Wiccan Rede closes with, "An[sic] Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will." I don't follow any faith, but those words are pretty clear enough, and good practice. Are there militant believers of every stripe? Absolutely. Those who seek to impose their beliefs upon others, and who seek to legitimize those beliefs by way of legislation, are a clear and present danger to the safety of ALL religions and ALL faiths in any given country. Sharia law as the law of a land should terrify any reasonable human being. Christian law as the law of a land should do the same. Religion is a PERSONAL choice, and should remain in the purvey of individuals. It is not the responsibility of the state to mandate religion. __________________ At Fiddler’s Green, where seamen true When here they’ve done their duty The bowl of grog shall still renew And pledge to love and beauty.