Convoys

Missing Name · 05-03-11, 09:01 PM

Bad weather may make it hard to attack (let alone see), but it's also one of the best covers you can get. You can literally run into the escorts on the surface and they sometimes won't notice. RADAR will destroy this, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNSRCaseySmith

[I quote probably the truest short story that could relate to submarines like this in a sense. There was a bull and his young son standing on a hill overlooking a flock of female cows, the son said to his father "Lets race down there and **ck one of the heifers" the father replied "Or we can calmly walk down there and **ck them all"... this should be your philosophy when attacking a convoy of almost any size, save unescorted ones.]

There have never been truer words. Keep your distance and be patient. Advice I should learn from... MAN THE DECK GUN!

sublynx · 05-04-11, 01:24 AM

Some very good advice given in previous answers

I have one point to add. One thing that helped me a lot, was realizing that when my radioman shouts "wasserbomben!", it does not necessarily mean that the depth charges are anywhere close to the boat. When I heard "wasserbomben!" I always put on flank speed and made a hard 90 degree turn - and thus gave my position away to any destroyer listening.

Now I keep listening to the hydrophones myself and try to find out if the destroyer is actually over me. If the hydrophone bearing moves quickly, even so quickly that I lose the destroyer's position, he's close and I have to be ready for flank speed. If he's close, you may hear his engine screws in the Zentrale room (F2 room) too. Many times they just waste depth charges having really no clue at all where I am. No need to panic if you know there are no destroyers dangerously close to you. Just keep on going silently.

The depth charges need to be very close to you to damage you. These thoughts apply from 1939 to March 1942. I have only played that time period yet. I haven't really played vanilla SH3 either, only GWX.

05-04-11, 03:24 AM

Beware. In '42 things change drasticaly.
Things that "always worked", begin to stop working.

On my last patrol we evaded 2 escorts while crawling down to 98 meters at silent speed.
That's about 30 minutes for a IXB or IXC.

We were doing very well and were filled with confidence, until 3 more escorts came onto the scene. One can't keep their nose and tail pointed in 4 directions. Once we lost the ability to present a norrow aspect, it was all their game. Luckily, we managed to escape and survive this time, but eventualy we probably won't.

There is no guaranteed formula (other than modding a "super-boat". No thanks).
Just keep your head, think of the consequences, and give it your best.

Hint: Provided you are not making repairs or loading torpedoes, and you are turning less than 100 RPMs, you do not need to set "silent running" to reap it's benefits.

sharkbit · 05-04-11, 06:58 AM

Impatience and greed will kill you in this game.

Later in the war, from mid-late '42 onward, night surface attacks become more and more difficult. The escorts are starting to have radar and the radar improves over time. It becomes extremely difficult to penetrate the screen. Daylight submerged attacks against the convoy become a better option most of the time. Even that becomes difficult with sonar improving, not to mention the escorts are just getting better.
In either case,submerged or surfaced, being forced to shoot from outside the screen happens more and more which means longer ranged shots than you may be used to.

Hotspur1337 · 05-04-11, 02:21 PM

Gee, thanks everyone. I never thought of diving under the convoy instead of coming about and running.

Last night I had a Flower Class pass by me while I was waiting for the convoy to come into position. So, I decided to take him out. I sent three torpedoes, and as soon as the first hit him he steered towards me, but then he sunk. The two other torpedoes than went on to take out a cargo ship way over on the other side of the convoy. Heh. Then I got away.

I'm sailing a Type VII/B.

How deep would be considered desirable?

maillemaker · 05-04-11, 02:37 PM

Depth, depth, depth.

I still haven't made it past '44 with dead is dead.

But later in the war, I find that unless you have 100% hull integrity so that you can dive to 200+ meters, don't bother attacking. Never attack with less than 300 meters under the keel. You must attack and then go as deep as you can and then run silent. As was said, you'll have to manually adjust your RPMs to be less than 90. Just clicking "slow" won't do it.

Make sure you are on silent running.

Steve

sharkbit · 05-04-11, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotspur1337

Gee, thanks everyone. I never thought of diving under the convoy instead of coming about and running.

Last night I had a Flower Class pass by me while I was waiting for the convoy to come into position. So, I decided to take him out. I sent three torpedoes, and as soon as the first hit him he steered towards me, but then he sunk. The two other torpedoes than went on to take out a cargo ship way over on the other side of the convoy. Heh. Then I got away.

Waste of eels. You got lucky with the added bonus of a cargo ship but that was lucky.

If the escort was the only escort and you could have the convoy all to yourself after the escort sinks, take advantage of it. If he has friends with him, they are going to be hunting you and you are going to be dodging them instead of sending tonnage to the bottom in the form of cargo ships/tankers.

Later in the war with more and better escorts, shooting escorts is a complete waste and more than likely you're tugging on the tiger's whiskers.

frau kaleun · 05-04-11, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotspur1337

Gee, thanks everyone. I never thought of diving under the convoy instead of coming about and running.

Wait until the first time you slip past the escorts and take all your shot from inside the convoy, and then dive. Nothing like trying to set up your shots while a couple dozen other ships are coming in your general direction.

And if you ever feel like having a mini heart attack, do that and then TAB your 'scope/UZO view to 'zoom' and then forget that you zoomed. The first time you scan around to check on the rest of the convoy and momentarily think you're about to be run over is quite the attention-getter.

sharkbit · 05-04-11, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

And if you ever feel like having a mini heart attack, do that and then TAB your 'scope/UZO view to 'zoom' and then forget that you zoomed. The first time you scan around to check on the rest of the convoy and momentarily think you're about to be run over is quite the attention-getter.

Even worse is when you are looking thru your scope while you're in the midst of the convoy submerged and a ship fills the field of view and you realize that you ARE NOT zoomed in with your scope.

Then there is no thinking you may get run over-you will get run over.

05-04-11, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotspur1337

Gee, thanks everyone. I never thought of diving under the convoy instead of coming about and running.

Last night I had a Flower Class pass by me while I was waiting for the convoy to come into position. So, I decided to take him out. I sent three torpedoes, and as soon as the first hit him he steered towards me, but then he sunk. The two other torpedoes than went on to take out a cargo ship way over on the other side of the convoy. Heh. Then I got away.

I'm sailing a Type VII/B.

How deep would be considered desirable?

Early war, 200 M should be sufficient, late war, as deep as you dare to take her. Just remember the more damage you take, the less deep you can go without severely crushing.

As to going into the convoy, I've used it a few times, but I prefer outside shots from about 4km or 5km. Why?? Like I stated before, if I set my torpedos to slow, I can be a good few km ahead of the convoy before they even impact, which is good, because thats not where theyre looking.

And like the other person posted, and I said, greed will kill you. A single ship is a quick meal to fill your hunger right away, a convoy is a 3 course meal for breakfast lunch and dinner that you can leave in the fridge for a day or so. If when your on your approach to set up attack, if anything smells fishy, just bug out and reaquire later.

Fish In The Water · 05-04-11, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotspur1337

Gee, thanks everyone. I never thought of diving under the convoy instead of coming about and running.

If the escorts get real aggressive, I'll even take it a step further and try 'shadowing' the larger merchants in the center of the convoy. That way you can use the noise from their screws and the disturbance of their wake for extra cover. Plus it's pretty hard to get depth charged if you're directly under a large tanker.

thegreattriscuit · 05-05-11, 01:41 AM

So, not meaning to hijack here, but I'm still learning the art of the convoy attack myself... and have just completed one pass, and would like some feedback...

so, this is a slow mover (6kts) with more than a dozen ships, and im' in a IXD, so plenty easy to sprint around it and put myself right in front... I figured I'd sit right in their path, submerged, with engines off (I'll have to look more into this 'setting the turns' business...), silent running, and even dropped my scope, and wait for them to get right on top of me so I could quickly pop up, dump all my tubes, and then GTFO...

Except when the first escort was passing me, everything went bad... my little meter went red, and suddenly people are screaming about getting pinged... thankfully I only had it on 8x and was able to crash and avoid the Depth charges, and in so doing wind up right where I wanted to be anyway and take a moment to sink 3 ships (inc. one of the escorts).

I was a shade deeper the parascope depth (12 or 15 m, I believe) with my scopes at around 6 or 7m (to avoid the ~5m draft of the escorts) in the middle of the night and perfect glassy waters. How did I get detected? Is it just assumed that if they're that close, one of my sailors is going to fart too loud and they'll pick it up in their hydrophones or something? Or is it "just one of those things"? Or was it a fluke and I should be able to get away with it just fine in the future? (by the way, I'm really not sure how close he was... <100m probably... i was at the nav map, at 8x, and was totally convinced I had nothing to worry about, so I wasn't really even watching his 'hydrophone line'...

And, related to the same scenario, I'm in the process of sprinting around them, and I can detect the radar from the escorts... they don't appear to have seen me yet, since they haven't sprinted up to kill me... and I'm considering running in close to pull one of them off and see if I can take him out so I don't have to worry later... is this worthwile at all? will all his friends come to the party, or just him, you think?

desirableroasted · 05-05-11, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

If the escorts get real aggressive, I'll even take it a step further and try 'shadowing' the larger merchants in the center of the convoy. That way you can use the noise from their screws and the disturbance of their wake for extra cover. Plus it's pretty hard to get depth charged if you're directly under a large tanker.

Nice in theory, but the AI escorts do not hear other AI ships.

"Lurking" under a large merchant is also a good idea, in theory, but how are you planning on keeping station under a zig-zagging merchant? And so what if you managed to? The escorts would still know where you are, so you would end up sailing across the Atlantic like that, without ever escaping.

05-04-11, 01:24 AM	#2
sublynx Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope Posts: 1,698 Downloads: 173 Uploads: 7	Some very good advice given in previous answers I have one point to add. One thing that helped me a lot, was realizing that when my radioman shouts "wasserbomben!", it does not necessarily mean that the depth charges are anywhere close to the boat. When I heard "wasserbomben!" I always put on flank speed and made a hard 90 degree turn - and thus gave my position away to any destroyer listening. Now I keep listening to the hydrophones myself and try to find out if the destroyer is actually over me. If the hydrophone bearing moves quickly, even so quickly that I lose the destroyer's position, he's close and I have to be ready for flank speed. If he's close, you may hear his engine screws in the Zentrale room (F2 room) too. Many times they just waste depth charges having really no clue at all where I am. No need to panic if you know there are no destroyers dangerously close to you. Just keep on going silently. The depth charges need to be very close to you to damage you. These thoughts apply from 1939 to March 1942. I have only played that time period yet. I haven't really played vanilla SH3 either, only GWX. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS

05-04-11, 06:58 AM	#4
sharkbit The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,529 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	Impatience and greed will kill you in this game. Later in the war, from mid-late '42 onward, night surface attacks become more and more difficult. The escorts are starting to have radar and the radar improves over time. It becomes extremely difficult to penetrate the screen. Daylight submerged attacks against the convoy become a better option most of the time. Even that becomes difficult with sonar improving, not to mention the escorts are just getting better. In either case,submerged or surfaced, being forced to shoot from outside the screen happens more and more which means longer ranged shots than you may be used to. __________________ “Prejudice is blind. There will always be someone who says you aren’t welcome at the table. Stop apologizing for who you are and using all your energy trying to change their minds. Yes, you will lose friends, maybe even family. But you will gain your self-respect. You will know your worth. Once you have that, nothing can stop you.”

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05-04-11, 03:24 AM	#3
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Beware. In '42 things change drasticaly. Things that "always worked", begin to stop working. On my last patrol we evaded 2 escorts while crawling down to 98 meters at silent speed. That's about 30 minutes for a IXB or IXC. We were doing very well and were filled with confidence, until 3 more escorts came onto the scene. One can't keep their nose and tail pointed in 4 directions. Once we lost the ability to present a norrow aspect, it was all their game. Luckily, we managed to escape and survive this time, but eventualy we probably won't. There is no guaranteed formula (other than modding a "super-boat". No thanks). Just keep your head, think of the consequences, and give it your best. Hint: Provided you are not making repairs or loading torpedoes, and you are turning less than 100 RPMs, you do not need to set "silent running" to reap it's benefits.

05-04-11, 02:21 PM	#5
Hotspur1337 Seaman Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Ann Arbor Posts: 38 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Gee, thanks everyone. I never thought of diving under the convoy instead of coming about and running. Last night I had a Flower Class pass by me while I was waiting for the convoy to come into position. So, I decided to take him out. I sent three torpedoes, and as soon as the first hit him he steered towards me, but then he sunk. The two other torpedoes than went on to take out a cargo ship way over on the other side of the convoy. Heh. Then I got away. I'm sailing a Type VII/B. How deep would be considered desirable?

05-04-11, 02:37 PM	#6
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Depth, depth, depth. I still haven't made it past '44 with dead is dead. But later in the war, I find that unless you have 100% hull integrity so that you can dive to 200+ meters, don't bother attacking. Never attack with less than 300 meters under the keel. You must attack and then go as deep as you can and then run silent. As was said, you'll have to manually adjust your RPMs to be less than 90. Just clicking "slow" won't do it. Make sure you are on silent running. Steve

05-05-11, 01:41 AM	#12
thegreattriscuit Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 7 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	So, not meaning to hijack here, but I'm still learning the art of the convoy attack myself... and have just completed one pass, and would like some feedback... so, this is a slow mover (6kts) with more than a dozen ships, and im' in a IXD, so plenty easy to sprint around it and put myself right in front... I figured I'd sit right in their path, submerged, with engines off (I'll have to look more into this 'setting the turns' business...), silent running, and even dropped my scope, and wait for them to get right on top of me so I could quickly pop up, dump all my tubes, and then GTFO... Except when the first escort was passing me, everything went bad... my little meter went red, and suddenly people are screaming about getting pinged... thankfully I only had it on 8x and was able to crash and avoid the Depth charges, and in so doing wind up right where I wanted to be anyway and take a moment to sink 3 ships (inc. one of the escorts). I was a shade deeper the parascope depth (12 or 15 m, I believe) with my scopes at around 6 or 7m (to avoid the ~5m draft of the escorts) in the middle of the night and perfect glassy waters. How did I get detected? Is it just assumed that if they're that close, one of my sailors is going to fart too loud and they'll pick it up in their hydrophones or something? Or is it "just one of those things"? Or was it a fluke and I should be able to get away with it just fine in the future? (by the way, I'm really not sure how close he was... <100m probably... i was at the nav map, at 8x, and was totally convinced I had nothing to worry about, so I wasn't really even watching his 'hydrophone line'... And, related to the same scenario, I'm in the process of sprinting around them, and I can detect the radar from the escorts... they don't appear to have seen me yet, since they haven't sprinted up to kill me... and I'm considering running in close to pull one of them off and see if I can take him out so I don't have to worry later... is this worthwile at all? will all his friends come to the party, or just him, you think?