Horror for car drivers - beware, worrying picture content

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Nothing like how, in a world fraught with hunger, the environmental political movements gain so much power that we are forced to consume our food as fuel...

Not to mention it drives up the cost of basic food staples to the point where we end up with rioting in the third world because they can't afford them anymore.

But hey, it's all about 'going green' so all the added starvation, misery and suffering doesn't amount to a hill of beans...

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Not to mention it drives up the cost of basic food staples to the point where we end up with rioting in the third world because they can't afford them anymore.

But hey, it's all about 'going green' so all the added starvation, misery and suffering doesn't amount to a hill of beans...

Of course misery means nothing. Remember the massive malaria outbreaks after banning DDT? I'm not suggesting that efficiet albeit somewhat environmentally-unfriendly products are necessarily the end-all, be-all. However, what I AM suggesting is that the environmental movement is so politicized that it DANGEROUSLY and irresponsibly rushes towards any alternative with little thought for unintended consequences (although, the conspiracy part of my brain often muses that there are probably a few extremists that covet nothing more than wiping out the third world).

[August]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Of course misery means nothing. Remember the massive malaria outbreaks after banning DDT? I'm not suggesting that efficiet albeit somewhat environmentally-unfriendly products are necessarily the end-all, be-all. However, what I AM suggesting is that the environmental movement is so politicized that it DANGEROUSLY and irresponsibly rushes towards any alternative with little thought for unintended consequences (although, the conspiracy part of my brain often muses that there are probably a few extremists that covet nothing more than wiping out the third world).

You're absolutely right. The Greeners have always been long on judgment and short on reflection.

[Growler]

Originally Posted by August

You're absolutely right. The Greeners have always been long on judgment and short on reflection.

It's all - it's always been - about maximizing profit. Period.

Got extra corn? There's no profit in feeding anyone with it, but if you can pour that corn out of a gas pump, you're golden. Being Green has nothing to do with it, other than the fact that the green movement is another profit-taking vehicle for industry - latch onto buzzwords, promote yourself and your product as green, and bingo - mo' money.

The green movement today is no different than was the lead-free fuel movement forty years ago: "This one is bad, this one is good, use this instead of this, and you'll be a good person" (while, sotto voce in the background, the company is saying, "And you'll pay a little more, but you'll feel good doing it, so we'll use that motivation to make a little more money.") It's been that way all along - the emergence of a green movement doesn't change the dynamic, it just reinforces it.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Growler

It's all - it's always been - about maximizing profit. Period.

Got extra corn? There's no profit in feeding anyone with it, but if you can pour that corn out of a gas pump, you're golden. Being Green has nothing to do with it, other than the fact that the green movement is another profit-taking vehicle for industry - latch onto buzzwords, promote yourself and your product as green, and bingo - mo' money.

The green movement today is no different than was the lead-free fuel movement forty years ago: "This one is bad, this one is good, use this instead of this, and you'll be a good person" (while, sotto voce in the background, the company is saying, "And you'll pay a little more, but you'll feel good doing it, so we'll use that motivation to make a little more money.") It's been that way all along - the emergence of a green movement doesn't change the dynamic, it just reinforces it.

I actually think it's more ideologically driven than that. Perhaps its a tad chicken/egg. Indeed, farmers have been a key lobbying force behind ethanol mandates. Of course, who wins when corn prices skyrocket? The farmers.

On the other hand, what I'm specifically referring to is the political backdrop of environmentalism behind the justification of the product in the first place. The ethanol lobby, which only really represents a TINY fraction of political forces, would have had no chance to succeed without an alliance from the more broad and subjective green movement.

So yes, while profit is certainly a motivation in the case of ethanol, I tend to believe that there would be zero chance of ethanol mandates without overwhelming environmentalist support. And when there are mandates, one almost automatically knows you have a free-market failure.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Wow...

Welcome to the future. Might be time to start looking around for a good horse.

I still say the Omish have a leg up on everybody, and in the end they'll get the last laugh. In the big picture of human history, Car's are a relatively recent invention. Horses, carts, and buggies have been around since somebody invented the wheel.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I'll get a bike.

Bikes work too.

If we all had to ride bikes, ill wager the fat American stereotype will disappear in a few years.

[Jimbuna]

A lot of supermarkets are gearing up for a price war in the UK....spend so much on groceries and get so much off each litre of their petrol.

Has been done spasmodically in the past but is getting more frequent now.

[Growler]

Originally Posted by Aramike

So yes, while profit is certainly a motivation in the case of ethanol, I tend to believe that there would be zero chance of ethanol mandates without overwhelming environmentalist support. And when there are mandates, one almost automatically knows you have a free-market failure.

D'accord, Mike; once the choice becomes a mandate, there's too much special interest in government.