BNP candidate Sion Owens faces 'Koran burn' charge

I was referring to BNP votes in the future mainly....they've already had some limited success in previous elections.

But their limited success has just shown them to be the idiots that they are. Every time the get any sort of local electoral victory their vote subsequently tumbles into oblivion.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

But their limited success has just shown them to be the idiots that they are. Every time the get any sort of local electoral victory their vote subsequently tumbles into oblivion.

Oh I agree....but I believe many peoples concerns are that one day they will actually increase they're percentage vote.

[joegrundman]

i have no love for the bnp either - but all he did was burn a book. an easily replaceable book that is in no short supply at that, and now he is arrested.

Assuming the book was his own property, and he did not burn someone else's book, i do not think britain is heading in the right direction if it wishes to say that, specifically, damaging your own copy of the Koran is a criminal offense.

Assuming the book was his own property, and he did not burn someone else's book, i do not think britain is heading in the right direction if it wishes to say that, specifically, damaging your own copy of the Koran is a criminal offense.

If he burnt it in his own property wearing full nazi regalia while shagging a sheep he would have been fine.
However once he chose to share his masterpiece in the public domain things change.

Oh I agree....but I believe many peoples concerns are that one day they will actually increase they're percentage vote.

They have been around in one form or another for well over a hundred years, they constantly find a new "them" to blame all the countries ills on and always hover around with a marginal percentage of the vote, they do regularly increase their percentage of the vote and put themselves more in the public eye.
It is at that point which they manage to destroy their "standing" again and again.
They are brainless idiots who get on a populist wave then demonstrate themselves very publicly as real brainless idiots and lose that populist appeal.

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

If he burnt it in his own property wearing full nazi regalia while shagging a sheep he would have been fine.

He might have been fine, but I'm not sure how the sheep would have felt about it...

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

If he burnt it in his own property wearing full nazi regalia while shagging a sheep he would have been fine.
However once he chose to share his masterpiece in the public domain things change.

even so, i do not think this should be considered criminal activity

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

even so, i do not think this should be considered criminal activity

And you may well be right but this leads us into the whole question of hate laws...

Most countries legislate my right to swing my fist ends at the tip of someone else's nose. In other words, I'm free to do whatever I want provided it causes no physical harm to someone else.

So far so good in that 'the law' is generally agreed on this principle. But then (rightly or wrongly) it seeks to extend it further by drafting so-called hate laws to cover 'emotional' harm.

At this point many suggest people should just 'suck it up' and not be offended, and while there may be some merit to this line of thinking, the authorities are not in a position to simply ignore an entire segment of the population that are (rationally or irrationally) enraged.

Some sort of mediation or mollification becomes necessary and hence we arrive at the rather dubious situation where anything that might be viewed as too offensive (and thereby disruptive to public order) can be labeled as criminal activity.

In other words, because the government has limited ability to control the reaction of the masses, (but can control the action of the individual), burning the Koran becomes 'criminal' activity because it has the potential to disturb the peace.

Not that I think it's right, but until someone devises a better solution we're sort of stuck in this boat.

[joegrundman]

if the burning of the koran specifically counts as incitement to hatred, then it is not an objective criterion, but purely because muslim pressure groups say they are offended. Otherwise we must ban the damage of any book (or dvd or whatever) deemed important to some group or other.

in reality, it isn't even incitement to hatred under these terms. it is however incitement to violence - muslim violence - and i suggest that that is the real issue at stake.

to wit - to what degree should britain specially protect various things and ideas deemed important to muslim sensibilities, because of the threat of lethal violence either at home or abroad.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

If he burnt it in his own property wearing full nazi regalia while shagging a sheep he would have been fine.

Wasn't aware the laws on beastiality had changed

[Skybird]

Rightwingers and Nazis indeed give efforts to critizise Islam a bad name if they write it on their names. You already get called an Islamophobi or a Nazi for criticisng Islam, if indeed real nazuis line of with that criticism, your cause is not really helped.

One more reason to despise and to hate Nazis so much. They opportunistically mess up EVERYTHING they touch.

But at least it illustrates why you cannot deal with Nazis on a basis of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". So very often, the enemy of my enemy still remains to be my enemy as well.

Confront both Nazism AND Islam.

Also, Nazism and Islam have much in common, and both root deeply in a totalitarian selfunderstanding. And today in almost every European nations you have cooperations - maybe not basing on true love, but cooperations nevertheless - of Nazi groups and Islamist groups. Becasue both have at least one common goal: the overthrowing and destruction of contemporary constitutional state orders of Western nations, and the established systems of law and order.

If they would acchieve that, their cooperation after that would end very soon - with Islam consuming Nazism next.

[Freiwillige]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Rightwingers and Nazis indeed give efforts to critizise Islam a bad name if they write it on their names. You already get called an Islamophobi or a Nazi for criticisng Islam, if indeed real nazuis line of with that criticism, your cause is not really helped.

One more reason to despise and to hate Nazis so much. They opportunistically mess up EVERYTHING they touch.

But at least it illustrates why you cannot deal with Nazis on a basis of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". So very often, the enemy of my enemy still remains to be my enemy as well.

Confront both Nazism AND Islam.

Also, Nazism and Islam have much in common, and both root deeply in a totalitarian selfunderstanding. And today in almost every European nations you have cooperations - maybe not basing on true love, but cooperations nevertheless - of Nazi groups and Islamist groups. Becasue both have at least one common goal: the overthrowing and destruction of contemporary constitutional state orders of Western nations, and the established systems of law and order.

If they would acchieve that, their cooperation after that would end very soon - with Islam consuming Nazism next.

In all reality calling somebody a Nazi is an emotional smear tactic used quite often. For example our famous sheriff Joe Arpaio is constantly smeared as a Nazi for enforcing our laws.
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/201...7/18645886.php

Its an old tactic designed to trigger not thought process but instant emotional disgust. It shuts down any topic no matter how legitimate.

Also see the term Racist. Any form of serious immigration reform here in America gets slammed with the left's favorite buzz words Racist and Nazi. And so far their seems to be no defense, pure logic fails when the public has a pre trained emotional response to these words.

This method of triggering negative emotional responses is nothing new.
National Socialists became Nazi's, sounds more vile.

Communist's became Commie's. Its a psychological weapon that's effects have been known for awhile.

So in closing you could say that the Nazi's ruin everything but you put any other party up there and the word Nazi gets thrown about and the effect is the same, Paralysis!