66 years ago today - Page 2

Krauter · 04-08-11, 05:40 PM

Damnit Duci I was gonna post that

Quote:

I think if Yamato was the best, it would have survived the attack - still surrendered - and would be a museum ship today, defiantly pointing its massive guns toward the sky - retired as the heavyweight champion of the 7 seas.

So you're saying that the Japanese, a people who at the time (Not sure if it's still the thought today) thought surrender was worse than death, should have surrendered their most powerful battleship, carrying the name of Ancient Japan, should have surrendered to the U.S? And you're also saying that the U.S wouldn't have bombed or shot the crap out of as a target ship?

I don't mean to be offensive, but I think that that reasoning is slightly delusional.

Also, to say that because it was sunk it cannot be "the best" is kind of delusional too. As Torplexed pointed out, all battleships are doomed in the face of airpower. How would Iowa or Missouri, or King George V, or Nelson/Rodney, etc have faired against the equal number of attacking Japanese aircraft with the equal amount of escort ships?

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Btw, why no love for the Musashi?

Mostly because Yamato carried the ancient name representing Japan. She was symbolical representation of Japan as a whole. That and she was the first

.

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I've never understood the design of the bridge/tower/superstructure.

It's called the "Pagoda" style superstructure, however that on the Yamato was an improved version (the ones found on the Kongo, Ise, Fuso and Nagato classes were from upgrades built on their original superstructures). Pagoda stye masts were built because it offered a taller platform to mount search lights (later radars) and gun directors. The higher you are, the further you can see.

Oberon · 04-08-11, 06:18 PM

I think they'd have rather rammed a US ship with the Yamato than surrender her, heck, they'd have blown up the magazines rather than give her up.

CaptainMattJ. · 04-08-11, 06:25 PM

its a god dam Greek tragedy

.

Kinda makes me wish that our naval forces were still WW2 Era without missiles. Disregarding crew casualties, i would kill to see a good old fashioned ship to ship slugfest.

If only :/. If they somehow found the money and time to reconstruct a WWII fleet that was Remotely controlled so as not to kill thousands of seamen, i would pay a HEFTY price to see it.

But to see the Yamato, the biggest baddest ship ever built, get sunk by aircraft just breaks my heart. Nowadays, you would never even remotely be in visual range of a fleet if you were engaging them. All you would do is launch missiles and aircraft until youve won.

WWII was the last great naval war. After Aircraft, you would Never see that type of fighting ever again.

In WW2, It took alot of math, deductive reasoning, and estimation to fire a torpedo at a ship to strike it. It had a chance of being a dud, it could miss, ect. Now you have guided torpedoes and pinpoint missiles. In WW2, aircraft actually had a chance of missing your ship, and sparing your life. now, if he fires that missile, your dead almost assuredly.

It took alot of force to wipe out a city. We only had a couple atomic bombs that were only developed at the end of the war. Often times, the city was badly damaged but not wiped out entirely. Now the world owns hundreds of nuclear warheads that can obliterate entire populations and deem an area completely and utterly devoid of life for 1000 years. One submarine has the power to wipe out countries. ONE submarine.

The worlds naval warfare has gotten ten thousand times more deadly. And we call it an improvement.

This ship was amazing. The best surface warfare vessel ever made for use with Naval gunnery along with the Iowa class. And it was completely annhilated by aircraft. With it sank the era of naval gunnery. Today, Smaller ships use their cannons almost as decoration. Its now all about the missiles.

R.I.P Yamato

Torplexed · 04-08-11, 08:18 PM

Although it's been said before, the sad part is that they never put these two behemoths, Yamato and Musashi (until 1944) in the carrier task forces where they could have actually done some good. Instead they sat a good chunk of the war at Truk while the lesser units of the fleet did all the dirty work. However, I can see why. The fuel requirements for both were staggering. I think there was also a psychological/prestige effect of not wanting to use the super battleships. What admiral wanted to be the guy in charge if the pinnacles of Japanese naval engineering went to the bottom? Raizo Tanaka, who was arguably the best Japanese surface combat admiral found out. You lose a ship, you drive a desk, even if that ship was just a light cruiser. Even with their superior training at night combat, the Japanese were the only navy to lose a battleship as a result of a surface engagement in the Pacific. I know Hiei was a combined effort but Kirishima was almost all Washington's doing. Add in Fuso and Ise and the tally is USN 4, IJN 0.

I think in John Toland's book he touched on the angst in the higher echelons of the IJN over losing both Hiei and Kirishima almost back to back in 1942. They got real shy about risking the remainder until it was too late. Then it was use 'em or lose 'em.

As regards the animated show, Star Blazers, judging by recreations of what the wreckage site looks like on the bottom of the East China Sea, I'd have to say the odds of Yamato getting spaceworthy any time soon are rather iffy at the moment. I know duct tape can work miracles, but geeezzz..

Oberon · 04-08-11, 08:25 PM

Torp my friend, if anime girls can have the breast sizes they have without their spine snapping in half, then the Yamato can be put back together and sent into space.

Torplexed · 04-08-11, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Torp my friend, if anime girls can have the breast sizes they have without their spine snapping in half, then the Yamato can be put back together and sent into space.

Roger that.

Growler · 04-08-11, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Nice ship.

But I've always said that the mightiest battleship of all time wouldn't be found on the sea floor.

Pretty much takes the Yamato put of the running IMHO

I hear you, GR.

The best battleship is one that you can still use after the fight. Yamato is an artificial reef, therefore, while it may be the best artificial reef, it isn't the best battleship.

04-08-11, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Roger that.

Do I sense another Torplexed Masterpiece coming on?

Torplexed · 04-08-11, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rilder

Do I sense another Torplexed Masterpiece coming on?

Not tonight. I gotta catch up on my ZZZzzs.

TorpX · 04-08-11, 10:59 PM

Quote:

If only :/. If they somehow found the money and time to reconstruct a WWII fleet that was Remotely controlled so as not to kill thousands of seamen, i would pay a HEFTY price to see it.

The price would indeed be very HEFTY.
On the other hand a decent computer sim shouldn't be out of the question.

04-08-11, 06:25 PM	#18
CaptainMattJ. The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sin City Posts: 1,364 Downloads: 55 Uploads: 0	its a god dam Greek tragedy . Kinda makes me wish that our naval forces were still WW2 Era without missiles. Disregarding crew casualties, i would kill to see a good old fashioned ship to ship slugfest. If only :/. If they somehow found the money and time to reconstruct a WWII fleet that was Remotely controlled so as not to kill thousands of seamen, i would pay a HEFTY price to see it. But to see the Yamato, the biggest baddest ship ever built, get sunk by aircraft just breaks my heart. Nowadays, you would never even remotely be in visual range of a fleet if you were engaging them. All you would do is launch missiles and aircraft until youve won. WWII was the last great naval war. After Aircraft, you would Never see that type of fighting ever again. In WW2, It took alot of math, deductive reasoning, and estimation to fire a torpedo at a ship to strike it. It had a chance of being a dud, it could miss, ect. Now you have guided torpedoes and pinpoint missiles. In WW2, aircraft actually had a chance of missing your ship, and sparing your life. now, if he fires that missile, your dead almost assuredly. It took alot of force to wipe out a city. We only had a couple atomic bombs that were only developed at the end of the war. Often times, the city was badly damaged but not wiped out entirely. Now the world owns hundreds of nuclear warheads that can obliterate entire populations and deem an area completely and utterly devoid of life for 1000 years. One submarine has the power to wipe out countries. ONE submarine. The worlds naval warfare has gotten ten thousand times more deadly. And we call it an improvement. This ship was amazing. The best surface warfare vessel ever made for use with Naval gunnery along with the Iowa class. And it was completely annhilated by aircraft. With it sank the era of naval gunnery. Today, Smaller ships use their cannons almost as decoration. Its now all about the missiles. R.I.P Yamato __________________ A popular Government without popular information nor the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives - James Madison

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04-08-11, 06:18 PM	#17
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I think they'd have rather rammed a US ship with the Yamato than surrender her, heck, they'd have blown up the magazines rather than give her up.

04-08-11, 08:18 PM	#19
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Although it's been said before, the sad part is that they never put these two behemoths, Yamato and Musashi (until 1944) in the carrier task forces where they could have actually done some good. Instead they sat a good chunk of the war at Truk while the lesser units of the fleet did all the dirty work. However, I can see why. The fuel requirements for both were staggering. I think there was also a psychological/prestige effect of not wanting to use the super battleships. What admiral wanted to be the guy in charge if the pinnacles of Japanese naval engineering went to the bottom? Raizo Tanaka, who was arguably the best Japanese surface combat admiral found out. You lose a ship, you drive a desk, even if that ship was just a light cruiser. Even with their superior training at night combat, the Japanese were the only navy to lose a battleship as a result of a surface engagement in the Pacific. I know Hiei was a combined effort but Kirishima was almost all Washington's doing. Add in Fuso and Ise and the tally is USN 4, IJN 0. I think in John Toland's book he touched on the angst in the higher echelons of the IJN over losing both Hiei and Kirishima almost back to back in 1942. They got real shy about risking the remainder until it was too late. Then it was use 'em or lose 'em. As regards the animated show, Star Blazers, judging by recreations of what the wreckage site looks like on the bottom of the East China Sea, I'd have to say the odds of Yamato getting spaceworthy any time soon are rather iffy at the moment. I know duct tape can work miracles, but geeezzz..

04-08-11, 08:25 PM	#20
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Torp my friend, if anime girls can have the breast sizes they have without their spine snapping in half, then the Yamato can be put back together and sent into space.