Losing Our Way

[Ducimus]

I always hate hearing stuff like this. I hate it because that kind of inequality is indeed scandalous. I hate it because even with stats like that, the bottom 80% of the US is a damn sight better off than 90% of the world. I hate it because it's almost always part of an argument that is indicative of a desire to force a redistribution of wealth, which in turn requires government intervention.

UnderseaLcpl, last i checked this is the United States, not F'ing China or India. You've used that part in the bold before, and what it seems to me your really saying is, "Your not living in huts, so STFU". What you are arguing for, IS a redesitribution of wealth, in and of itself. Your arguing that it is ok to redistribute American wealth, across the globe, because we aren't living in huts.

Well, yeah, it's true, we don't live in huts, but this is the United States of America. Places like China or Inida is there, and this is here, and HERE is what matters. Here we have and should have higher standards, and you should expect no less for your home country! In order to ensure that, and to preserve the American way of life, we need to look after our own people.. You know.. looking out for your own? Didn't they teach you that in the Marine Corp?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

UnderseaLcpl, last i checked this is the United States, not F'ing China or India. You've used that part in the bold before, and what it seems to me your really saying is, "Your not living in huts, so STFU". What you are arguing for, IS a redesitribution of wealth, in and of itself. Your arguing that it is ok to redistribute American wealth, across the globe, because we aren't living in huts.

That's not what I'm saying at all, Deuce, sorry if I gave you that impression. I don't know if you read the rest of the post (can't blame you if you didn't) but what I'm arguing for is limitation of government because government is so counterproductive. It inadvertently ends up sedning our jobs overseas or destroying them entirely or making it so that nobody creates them in the first place.

I don't much care for the current world distribution of wealth, but I'm not out to fix it. Actually, if we adopted my consistent stance that we should restrict government and lower corporate and capital gains taxes to a fraction of what they are now, or better yet, to zero, we'd end up making a lot of the world poorer as firms (and especially financial firms) flocked to the US.

In order to ensure that, and to preserve the American way of life, we need to look after our own people.. You know.. looking out for your own? Didn't they teach you that in the Marine Corp?

And that's precisely what I'm doing, as best I know how. Granted, my preferred method is not going to save the family farm or the old mill. In fact, a lot of jobs like that would be lost for lack of subsidies. However, there would be so many new and better jobs created that we come out out. Even the little guy wins because employers will be forced to pay more and provide training just to attract workers because there won't be enough to go around. The wealth generated by such a business environment would also provide jobs in other countries since we buy everything from everybody else. Everybody wins in the end.

[Ducimus]

I don't know if you read the rest of the post (can't blame you if you didn't)

Your right i didn't. With posts that touch on one of the few topics I actually give a rats ass about, the post itself becomes a persuasive argument i scrutinize with a furrowed brow. It's much akin to that old TV game show The instant i see something that I strongly disagree with, the stop button gets hit, and the whammy comes out. At that point, i stop reading.


On the bright side of things, at least were wanting the same thing. We aren't quite on the same page as to how to achieve that same thing, but at least we seem to want the same thing. Honestly, reading your posts (i dont always respond) half the time, i think you love your personal finances more then you love the your country. (edit: For clairification that means, half the time, i think you'd outsource everyones job/livelyhood if it meant for you to getting ahead, just like those big time CEO's with the golden parachutes that screw everyone over)

I'm not making that accusation, its just the impression i get as much as you go on about your love of globalization and unrestricted capitalism, with so little mention of anything else. I pick up on that, because I have very strong sense of nationalism, and i'm probably one of the few people around who will still use the word "Countryman". (look up the synonyms for that if the word is fuzzy to you. )

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Your right i didn't. With posts that touch on one of the few topics I actually give a rats ass about, the post itself becomes a persuasive argument i scrutinize with a furrowed brow. It's much akin to that old TV game show The instant i see something that I strongly disagree with, the stop button gets hit, and the whammy comes out. At that point, i stop reading.

I figured it would be because my posts are always so damn long. Sometimes I look back at what I wrote and I don't even want to read it.

On the bright side of things, at least were wanting the same thing. We aren't quite on the same page as to how to achieve that same thing, but at least we seem to want the same thing. Honestly, reading your posts (i dont always respond) half the time, i think you love your personal finances more then you love the your country. (edit: For clairification that means, half the time, i think you'd outsource everyones job/livelyhood if it meant for you to getting ahead, just like those big time CEO's with the golden parachutes that screw everyone over)

Nah, I'm not like that. If I could be accused of being so heartless it would be in the sense that I want to outsource other nations' jobs to us, along with most of their liquid capital. I want to make sure the dollar is always the world's reserve currency. I want every business that can do so to be based in the US so we own everything anyway, no matter where it's made or mined. Easiest way to do that is to get our public debt and defecit under control. Cut the most wasteful programs and subsidies. Simplify the regs. And then pull the rug out from the rest of the world's feet by suddenly dropping corporate and investment taxes to zero. Companies will be tripping over each other to source work here and invest in US businesses.

It's a dirty trick but if we could ever implement it we'd be sitting pretty for a long time.

I'm not making that accusation, its just the impression i get as much as you go on about your love of globalization and unrestricted capitalism, with so little mention of anything else. I pick up on that, because I have very strong sense of nationalism, and i'm probably one of the few people around who will still use the word "Countryman". (look up the synonyms for that if the word is fuzzy to you. )

Well that's mostly because I value freedom so much. Particularly the freedom of this nation. But to be free you need to (a) not be beholden to the state and (b)be wealthy enough to make free choices and not forced ones out of necessity. Until you get those out of the way there really isn't much point in discussing what we could or should be doing because it isn't really our choice, anyway.

My sense of nationalism is just as strong as yours. I just want to make sure that it indeed remains "our" sense of nationalism and not one used to goad us into supporting political agendas or supporting some half-coked state plan and then forgiving them for frakking it up because it's "patriotic". I hope that helps you see where I'm coming from, countryman

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

UnderseaLcpl, last i checked this is the United States, not F'ing China or India. You've used that part in the bold before, and what it seems to me your really saying is, "Your not living in huts, so STFU". What you are arguing for, IS a redesitribution of wealth, in and of itself. Your arguing that it is ok to redistribute American wealth, across the globe, because we aren't living in huts.

Well, yeah, it's true, we don't live in huts, but this is the United States of America. Places like China or Inida is there, and this is here, and HERE is what matters. Here we have and should have higher standards, and you should expect no less for your home country! In order to ensure that, and to preserve the American way of life, we need to look after our own people.. You know.. looking out for your own? Didn't they teach you that in the Marine Corp?

Easy, there. Debate the message, don't attack the messenger.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Easy, there. Debate the message, don't attack the messenger.

I don't mind. I've come close to crossing that line myself more than enough. I try not to take things personally. I like everyone on this site, even Tribesman. Hence the stolen sig.

Your site, your rules, of course.