How dumb are we?

[tater]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

well people in my state were dumb enough to elect Rick Snyder. Hopefully were smart when the recall election happens.

I guarantee you'll get remarkably dumb survey answers if you go to certain demographics that vote democrat as well. Places where over 90% of the people on the street you interview are guaranteed democrats... say north of 125 st in NYC (note that you'd get the same % democrats south of 125th street in NYC, but the education level would be higher—though many university grads these days have no history background at all*).

People in general are idiots. I'd be perfectly fine with a "civics" test required every few years to be allowed to register to vote.


*there was an interesting article by our former Representative, Heather Wilson. She's been on the Rhodes selection committee for years, and she said that the candidates are getting more and more narrow. They specialize as undergrads from the start, and might be brilliant in their major field, but are utterly clueless outside it. She'll ask why they say they are for something, what's the history, etc, and they get a deer in headlights look. Sad, really.

Found the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...012104554.html

And do dumb people really deserve the right to vote in a democracy?

People are dumb, its part of being human.
So which idiots get to decide which other idiots are too idioic to vote?
I suppose the best test would be to only exclude the biggest idiots, the biggest idiots of course being the people who think they are not idiots.

What separates us is that you think that certain groups are beneath you, whereas I think that we should not allow any group to gain primacy through your rationale.

Hey at least this time he is only on about removing voting rights of those who don't measure up, its not like he is off on his eugenics line for lower humans again

[tater]

Most (all) modern democracies have some form of public education. In the US, this system is the primary budget element in every single state by a wide margin. It's ~80% of the NM State budget, for example—and cities spend in addition to State funding.

The rationale is presumably to create an educated (minimally) electorate. If it fails this most basic requirement, it shows how useless it is as a public expense.

[MH]

Whos saing was it ?
"In democracy people get the government that they deserve"

[tater]

Everyone gets the government they deserve

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

People are dumb, its part of being human.
So which idiots get to decide which other idiots are too idioic to vote?
I suppose the best test would be to only exclude the biggest idiots, the biggest idiots of course being the people who think they are not idiots.

Tribesman, you are a terrible writer and not in the least capable of conveying a point effectively. I see your point but are you so far above the rest of us that you can't be bothered to just take the time to spell things out? Vagueness is the mark of a weak debater.

Hey at least this time he is only on about removing voting rights of those who don't measure up, its not like he is off on his eugenics line for lower humans again

No, he isn't. He's toting the same line but in a different form, as I'm sure you've perceived.

[Oberon]

"In America, anyone can become president. That's one of the risks you take." - Adlai Stevenson

[Feuer Frei!]

Problem is, the dumb always seem to be the majority in elections!
The way i see it is that here in Australia, there are way too many people that i speak to that firstly wouldn't have a clue about Politics, what the different parties stand for, what their stand points are etc.
The other thing that i find is that people don't give a rat's about politics either.
Needless to say, ie they are uneducated, misinformed, easily swayed, voting for a party because of peer group pressure, because their g/f or b/f or grandmother voted for them then 'i may as well'.
Can't remember who said in this thread that we need to educate people more about their countrie's politics.
Politics is a farce anyway.
All the b***s*** that politicians speak well before, pre elction campaign and during election campaigning is tiring and just so ridiculous.
The 'sales pitch' that they deliver is laughable, and it is the same usual crap every time elections are looming or taking place.
A bunch of gutless and spineless liars who only seem to care during times of elections about the country or the state if it's a state election, then, once elected, it's business as usual!
The attitude seems to then be 'well, we are in, now we can just relax and do nothing about the election promises'.
Unfortunately dumb people will always be sucked in by the lying, 2-faced politicians.
I have long believed that that is how the wrong governments get into power.
The dumb people vote for them.
Thank you Captain Obvious you say, well, makes sense doesn't it?

Solution?
Educate, educate, educate!!!!!
Then you may just find that the majority of voters will be better informed to make the right decision, not a dumb one!

Hi,

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Edward Bernayes.

[August]

I've come to believe that the only thing that should be done (or in this case not done) is to just not encourage people to vote.

The way I see it if a person is too dumb or self absorbed to see the importance of voting then I really don't want them participating. Pushing ignorant people into voting only produces ignorant votes.

Leave voting to those who care enough to make the effort without being pushed into it.

[tater]

Originally Posted by August

I've come to believe that the only thing that should be done (or in this case not done) is to just not encourage people to vote.

The way I see it if a person is too dumb or self absorbed to see the importance of voting then I really don't want them participating. Pushing ignorant people into voting only produces ignorant votes.

Leave voting to those who care enough to make the effort without being pushed into it.

I agree. Yet we consistently see one party pushing incessantly for weakening the controls on who votes (pro-voter fraud stances, like being against ID requirements to vote, or being in favor of driver's licenses for illegals*), and also making it automatic to be registered (motor-voter, etc).

*In the last week here in NM, the new administration (Governor Martinez) compared the DL roles for illegals with voter registration (and voting)... what a surprise, there is overlap.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by August

I've come to believe that the only thing that should be done (or in this case not done) is to just not encourage people to vote.

The way I see it if a person is too dumb or self absorbed to see the importance of voting then I really don't want them participating. Pushing ignorant people into voting only produces ignorant votes.

Leave voting to those who care enough to make the effort without being pushed into it.

yep, I also agree.

There was a referendum in our country, about a very serius issue (really, not being sarcastic) and my grandmother had no idea was she for or against, while a certain catholic radio station, which was right wing biased told her to vote against. And so she voted against, just because the radio told her. Now that was a vote that shouldnt be there.

[tater]

Originally Posted by Betonov

yep, I also agree.

There was a referendum in our country, about a very serius issue (really, not being sarcastic) and my grandmother had no idea was she for or against, while a certain catholic radio station, which was right wing biased told her to vote against. And so she voted against, just because the radio told her. Now that was a vote that shouldnt be there.

And most likely most who voted "for" were also told by someone in one way or another.

There was a student vote at the university a long time ago regarding changing the styrofoam cups at the Student Union cafe to ceramic. They claimed to be acting in the name of the environment, and handily won the vote. I knew people in student government, and asked a few (over coffee in styrofoam cups, lol) to "show their work" and demonstrate to me that the total environmental cost-benefit (the cost to "the earth" not money) demonstrated that the ceramic cups (that would need washing) were better. They looked at me like I had asked them what the airspeed velocity of a sparrow was. They had no "work" to show, and no reference to anyone else who HAD done the work (because no one had). Unthinking votes cross political lines.

[Tchocky]

I don't very much relish the idea of being bound by laws that I have neither given consent to nor have the power to change.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by tater

And most likely most who voted "for" were also told by someone in one way or another.

It was an Arbitration Agreement between Slovenia and Croatia about a sea border in a small bay, empty of fish and poluted, that has been a hotspot between the countries since Yugoslavia fell apart in 1991. I was for since I was tired of politicians using this disagreement to avert the public form the failing economy and incompetence of politicians, to the point I am more ready to trust some hotshots from Belgium to finally sort this out than national(istic) interests.
The problem I have and you proabibly guessed it is that if my grandmother would have said: I'm against because I dont trust foreigners to do this right. it would be alright, her decision. No, she was against because a radio told her.