Kreigsmarin Interface U Boat tutorial question

karamazovnew · 03-08-11, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

If you do turn off auto update, I assume you have to recalulate range and Aob?

If map contacts are disabled, how to you establish course?

Also, in the sub school tutorial mission I have not been able to get hydrophone readings on the target. Maybe this is a bug in the tutorial. I assume in missions, you can get bearings of targets from hydrophone readings. Is that correct?

You don't need to recalculate. Remember that once you know the target's AOB you can quickly establish an intercept course by the method described before. In that case you set up a 180 degrees "intercept" course, meaning a parallel one. If however you used 90 degrees instead, you'd be on a 90 degrees intercept course. So, if at any time during your approach you move the periscope by mistake while your autoupdate is OFF, even if you break the AOB, you can quickly reestablish the correct AOB by doing this:
1. move your periscope straight ahead (by pressing the "set view to heading" key)
2. Autoupdate OFF so you can change the AOB
3. in the AOB enter your intercept course value (pay attention to set it correctly port or starboard)
4. turn autoupdate ON again.
Now when you move the periscope over your target you'll be able to see that the AOB is correct. Why? I already explained in the tutorial that:
Intercept Angle = Sub's Course - Target's Course
Intercept Angle = Bearing + AOB
So as long as you and the target don't change course, by zeroing your bearing what you did was: Intercept Angle = AOB
Now, as you move the periscope, the Bearing dial automatically moves the AOB dial to maintain that relation.

I don't understand why you'd need to use the map to establish the target's course. By using your TDC only, you can work in a relative environment, never even looking at your heading.
As for the Hydrophone, my technique depends on you being able to see your target, there are other tutorials that deal with hydrophone hunting. But it is a fact that SH4 and SH5 have big problems with the hydrophone. Even if you can hear a target, sometimes the sonarguy never reports them.

I'm goin' down · 03-08-11, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

You don't need to recalculate. Remember that once you know the target's AOB you can quickly establish an intercept course by the method described before. In that case you set up a 180 degrees "intercept" course, meaning a parallel one. If however you used 90 degrees instead, you'd be on a 90 degrees intercept course. So, if at any time during your approach you move the periscope by mistake while your autoupdate is OFF, even if you break the AOB, you can quickly reestablish the correct AOB by doing this:
1. move your periscope straight ahead (by pressing the "set view to heading" key)
2. Autoupdate OFF so you can change the AOB
3. in the AOB enter your intercept course value (pay attention to set it correctly port or starboard)
4. turn autoupdate ON again.
Now when you move the periscope over your target you'll be able to see that the AOB is correct. Why? I already explained in the tutorial that:
Intercept Angle = Sub's Course - Target's Course
Intercept Angle = Bearing + AOB
So as long as you and the target don't change course, by zeroing your bearing what you did was: Intercept Angle = AOB
Now, as you move the periscope, the Bearing dial automatically moves the AOB dial to maintain that relation.

I don't understand why you'd need to use the map to establish the target's course. By using your TDC only, you can work in a relative environment, never even looking at your heading.
As for the Hydrophone, my technique depends on you being able to see your target, there are other tutorials that deal with hydrophone hunting. But it is a fact that SH4 and SH5 have big problems with the hydrophone. Even if you can hear a target, sometimes the sonarguy never reports them.

Here is what I think you are telling us:

1. Get target speed. The preferred way is using the stop watch as it passes the bow of the boat. Can you calculate speed accurate when it crosses the scope at another angle, say 45 degrees, if your boat is stopped? It seems that if you calculate the target's speed when it crosses the zero bearing of your scope, you will have to reposition you boat to make an attack run with an Aob of 90 degrees.
2. How do we establish the target's course with map contacts diabled? Is it established by using the Aob obtained from the KIUB interface?
3. If the target is moving away, turn off the TDC and reset the Aob to 180 degrees to follow (parallel) the target and overtake it. Zero out the scope by hitting the = key? Then reactivate the TDC.
4. When you overtake the target or change course to intercept at 90 degrees, turn off the TDC, reset the Aob to 90 degrees to the correct port or starboard side of the target, zero the scope by hitting the = key, and reactive the TDC. This should put your boat on an intercept course of 90 degrees? When do you fire topedoes?

I am not sure any of the above is correct. I obviously do not have the whole picture. I do understand how to use the interface to calcualte range, speed and Aob. How I use them on an attack run is another matter. Further, the last sub school tutorial failed, even though the torpedoes looked like they would hit the target, because they all exploded prematurely! Also, there are dials on the periscope screen that are duplicated on the Attack Map. Which do I use? From what I have observed, changing one does not change the other.

I'm goin' down · 03-09-11, 02:16 PM

Not having played SH3, I have managed to get lost in the details of ATO and the KIUB interface. The two video tutorials that were recommended by Wilcke are lengthy SH3 and short KIUb videos, so I was ended up trying to pull out useful parts of the SH3 tutorial, which has different tools to enter data, although the interface was similar. The KIUB written tutorial does a good job explaining range, Aob and speed, but after that, it is more difficult for me to follow. Plus, the screen shots in the KIUB written tutorial could be larger and show the full interface on the screen shots for ease of understanding. However, the issue is not how to calculate range, aob, and speed of the target. The KIUB video and written tutorials do an adequeate job in that respect. It is how to put those features together in an attack run using the TDC dials and TDC activation button. I have a similar issue with the torpedoe attack screen and the Attack Screen, which I will raise in the questions below.

Here are most of the questions I have. Some may seem dumb, some may seem obvious, but I have thought about each and think they will enhance some players, myself included, understanding of the mod.

First, how does one plot target course without map contacts enabled? If you have to plot Aob and the target's range, it can be done based upon the method described in the KIUB written tutorial for finding range and Aob. However, one will need multiple plots of Aob and range, so when the plots are connected the compass tool can be utilized to determine the target's course. Is this the only way, and is this method correct.

Second, I understand you can plot a target's speed as it crosses the periscope at a 0 bearing. But can you plot a target's speed accurately at any bearing if your boat is stationary, and what is the disadvantage, if any, of plotting speed at other than a zero bearing?

Third, what is the deal with the TDC button? (See below for the context of this question.)

Fourth, assume you are paralleling the target after getting its speed and course, where does one set the Aob for an attack run? I assume it is set at 90 degrees port or starboard, as the case may be. Once you change course to intercept do you have to deactivate and reactive the TDC button and if you do, what is the reason for having to do so? (this relates to the thrid question)? From what I have read, if you want to intercept at 90 degrees Aob, move the Aob to 90 degrees (port or starboard, as is appropriate), move the scope to 90 degrees, and hit the = key to change the boat's heading to view. I will recheck the tutorial.

Fifth, what happens if you have the TDC button activated on the Attack Screen, but the TDC button is deactivated on Periscope screen and vice versa? Is there a relationship between the button on the Attack Screen and Periscope screen? Must both be activated? And if only one is required to be activated, does it matter whch one? (This relates to the thrid question.) I assume when the light is activated the TDC is in operation.

Sixth, assume the TDC light is activated on the Periscope Screen. You swivel the periscope from 20 to 40 degrees. I assume with the bearing and Aob dials move new settings as the periscoped is swiveled (I will check this in a few minutes). Is something happening or is about ready to happen with the TDC settings. If the TDC light is activated, how do you enter the new settings shown on the periscope screen, or are they entered automatically? Do you have to deactivate the TDC light and reactivate it to enter the new settings?

Seventh, I could use some screen shots labelling in English the various dials on both sides of the Periscope screen and on the Attack Map screen, as I do not read German. I can figure out the purpose of some of the dials, but some I have been unable to figure out.

Eighth, what do the two small numbers at the bottom center of the Aob dial mean and how are they used?

Ninth, if you have to parellel a target's course to get into positon for an Intercept, I assume the target will change course if it spots your boat. What is a "safe" range is recommended for paralleling the target so your boat is not spotted? Perhaps 3,000 yds, but that is just an educated guess?

I assume that the players who enjoy ATO have figured out the answers to the above, or at least have the answers to most of them. But I learned the sim from scratch using American boats in the PTO. I have never played the German side, and while I understand much of theory, I am lost on the practicalities, i.e. how to do it? By comparison, SH4 has an abundance of tutorials, written and video, to help one resolve the various issues. Plus it has the Easy Aob, 3D TDC and sonar readings to help you plot and set the target's course with map contacts disabled. I need help with the ATO mod, and I asume if one or two good tutorials explaining the mod are published more players in my position will give it a "shot" (pun intended.) Meanwhile, I stumble along, lost in deep blue sea, looking for a way to come up for air. What has me intriqued is that some posts priase ATO for being one of the best mods out there, and I am up for a challenge.

karamazovnew · 03-09-11, 06:15 PM

Wow, that's a lot of questions

Let's see...
Safe distance from target: OM is quite forgiving, but still, 3000m is a very very short distance. I'd keep the target almost touching the horizon, barely visible. And since they're more likely to spot you as you move ahead of them, I usually keep them out of view and check where they are with the hydrophone (manually). WHen you turn parallel to your target, you'll hear a guy say "Aye aye captain, new course XXX". You can maneuver as you want and then get parallel just by entering that course again. And you have the message box just in case you forget it.

Turning 90 degrees: why would you need the TDC for that? If you're on a parallel course, just turn 90 degrees into the target, simple as that. As I said, it's better to refine the AOB solution as the target gets close, nut just rely on a "10km away 5 second estimation" for the entire attack.

Plotting: again, why would you need that? But anyway.... True Bearing = Bearing + Sub's course. You extend a true bearing line from your sub and stop it at the estimated range. Then you use the protractor to create an angle equal to the estimated AOB between that line and the target's course.

Speed: as I already said... stop the sub. There's absolutely no benefit in pointing your sub at the target. You should already be way ahead of the target so you should have time to do that. However, the target's AOB must be at least 45 so you can get a clear view. Or, calculate the speed when it crosses your 045 or 315 bearing. In that case add your speed to what you calculate.

Torpedoes: never ever use electric torpedoes with magnetic detonators. Not until late in the war. They're still way better then the ones we had in SH3, but an electric torpedo with an impact detonator will always do the job.

The small numbers at the center of the AOB dial: arre you sure you've read MY tutorial? Because in that case you'd know they're just numbers of the periscope lines, or "milirads" as I like to call them. While the main reticule had 1 tick every 2 miliradians (the 5'th tick being numbered "10"), the AOB wheel has one tick for each miliradian.

English labels: They're included as an optional in OMEGU, just enable as you would do with any mod.

Autoupdate Button on Attack Map: It does the same thing as clicking the one on the Periscope Screen. The only problem is that if you click it once and then leave the screen, the "blue lit, unlit" behavior of the one on the Attack Periscope will invert. It's just a graphical error and nothing I can fix. All dials work the same way. And yes, even in the Attack Map screen you still need to put Autoupdate OFF to enter data into the TDC.

I'm goin' down · 03-09-11, 08:04 PM

I n loaded the English mod. The German has been replaced by English. Thanks.

I'm goin' down · 03-09-11, 10:27 PM

!@#$**#!

I had what looked to be a good solution and then I went to the Attack Map and acitvated the TDC. I had been using the TDC on the Periscope screen to input the data entries. But the last time I looked at the Attack Map, I activated it and entered the Aob, I thought. Now that I think aobut it, maybe I didn't updatee the Aob when I activated it, as I had entered it on the Periscope screen. I went back to the Periscope screen. The TDC was still activated and the solution looked good as I had input the date before I activated the Attrack Screen TDC, so I fired. I returned to the Attack Map. The gyro angle had changed. All the shots missed.

Is it possible that by activating the Attack Map, the Aob that is entered on it overrides the Aob entered previously on the Periscope screen?

Regardless, I am taking a break for awhile. This is qutie frustrating. Plus, in the sub school mission, I cannot get hydrophone readings and when I try to save the mission the game crashes, so I have to start from scratch when I replay it.

Maybe someone can make a practice mission that I can save, so I don't have to start anew each time.

03-09-11, 02:16 PM	#3
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	We need a decent tutorial (soon hopefully) Not having played SH3, I have managed to get lost in the details of ATO and the KIUB interface. The two video tutorials that were recommended by Wilcke are lengthy SH3 and short KIUb videos, so I was ended up trying to pull out useful parts of the SH3 tutorial, which has different tools to enter data, although the interface was similar. The KIUB written tutorial does a good job explaining range, Aob and speed, but after that, it is more difficult for me to follow. Plus, the screen shots in the KIUB written tutorial could be larger and show the full interface on the screen shots for ease of understanding. However, the issue is not how to calculate range, aob, and speed of the target. The KIUB video and written tutorials do an adequeate job in that respect. It is how to put those features together in an attack run using the TDC dials and TDC activation button. I have a similar issue with the torpedoe attack screen and the Attack Screen, which I will raise in the questions below. Here are most of the questions I have. Some may seem dumb, some may seem obvious, but I have thought about each and think they will enhance some players, myself included, understanding of the mod. First, how does one plot target course without map contacts enabled? If you have to plot Aob and the target's range, it can be done based upon the method described in the KIUB written tutorial for finding range and Aob. However, one will need multiple plots of Aob and range, so when the plots are connected the compass tool can be utilized to determine the target's course. Is this the only way, and is this method correct. Second, I understand you can plot a target's speed as it crosses the periscope at a 0 bearing. But can you plot a target's speed accurately at any bearing if your boat is stationary, and what is the disadvantage, if any, of plotting speed at other than a zero bearing? Third, what is the deal with the TDC button? (See below for the context of this question.) Fourth, assume you are paralleling the target after getting its speed and course, where does one set the Aob for an attack run? I assume it is set at 90 degrees port or starboard, as the case may be. Once you change course to intercept do you have to deactivate and reactive the TDC button and if you do, what is the reason for having to do so? (this relates to the thrid question)? From what I have read, if you want to intercept at 90 degrees Aob, move the Aob to 90 degrees (port or starboard, as is appropriate), move the scope to 90 degrees, and hit the = key to change the boat's heading to view. I will recheck the tutorial. Fifth, what happens if you have the TDC button activated on the Attack Screen, but the TDC button is deactivated on Periscope screen and vice versa? Is there a relationship between the button on the Attack Screen and Periscope screen? Must both be activated? And if only one is required to be activated, does it matter whch one? (This relates to the thrid question.) I assume when the light is activated the TDC is in operation. Sixth, assume the TDC light is activated on the Periscope Screen. You swivel the periscope from 20 to 40 degrees. I assume with the bearing and Aob dials move new settings as the periscoped is swiveled (I will check this in a few minutes). Is something happening or is about ready to happen with the TDC settings. If the TDC light is activated, how do you enter the new settings shown on the periscope screen, or are they entered automatically? Do you have to deactivate the TDC light and reactivate it to enter the new settings? Seventh, I could use some screen shots labelling in English the various dials on both sides of the Periscope screen and on the Attack Map screen, as I do not read German. I can figure out the purpose of some of the dials, but some I have been unable to figure out. Eighth, what do the two small numbers at the bottom center of the Aob dial mean and how are they used? Ninth, if you have to parellel a target's course to get into positon for an Intercept, I assume the target will change course if it spots your boat. What is a "safe" range is recommended for paralleling the target so your boat is not spotted? Perhaps 3,000 yds, but that is just an educated guess? I assume that the players who enjoy ATO have figured out the answers to the above, or at least have the answers to most of them. But I learned the sim from scratch using American boats in the PTO. I have never played the German side, and while I understand much of theory, I am lost on the practicalities, i.e. how to do it? By comparison, SH4 has an abundance of tutorials, written and video, to help one resolve the various issues. Plus it has the Easy Aob, 3D TDC and sonar readings to help you plot and set the target's course with map contacts disabled. I need help with the ATO mod, and I asume if one or two good tutorials explaining the mod are published more players in my position will give it a "shot" (pun intended.) Meanwhile, I stumble along, lost in deep blue sea, looking for a way to come up for air. What has me intriqued is that some posts priase ATO for being one of the best mods out there, and I am up for a challenge. Last edited by I'm goin' down; 03-09-11 at 04:02 PM.

03-09-11, 08:04 PM	#5
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	got part of it I n loaded the English mod. The German has been replaced by English. Thanks.

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03-09-11, 06:15 PM	#4
karamazovnew The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,403 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	Wow, that's a lot of questions Let's see... Safe distance from target: OM is quite forgiving, but still, 3000m is a very very short distance. I'd keep the target almost touching the horizon, barely visible. And since they're more likely to spot you as you move ahead of them, I usually keep them out of view and check where they are with the hydrophone (manually). WHen you turn parallel to your target, you'll hear a guy say "Aye aye captain, new course XXX". You can maneuver as you want and then get parallel just by entering that course again. And you have the message box just in case you forget it. Turning 90 degrees: why would you need the TDC for that? If you're on a parallel course, just turn 90 degrees into the target, simple as that. As I said, it's better to refine the AOB solution as the target gets close, nut just rely on a "10km away 5 second estimation" for the entire attack. Plotting: again, why would you need that? But anyway.... True Bearing = Bearing + Sub's course. You extend a true bearing line from your sub and stop it at the estimated range. Then you use the protractor to create an angle equal to the estimated AOB between that line and the target's course. Speed: as I already said... stop the sub. There's absolutely no benefit in pointing your sub at the target. You should already be way ahead of the target so you should have time to do that. However, the target's AOB must be at least 45 so you can get a clear view. Or, calculate the speed when it crosses your 045 or 315 bearing. In that case add your speed to what you calculate. Torpedoes: never ever use electric torpedoes with magnetic detonators. Not until late in the war. They're still way better then the ones we had in SH3, but an electric torpedo with an impact detonator will always do the job. The small numbers at the center of the AOB dial: arre you sure you've read MY tutorial? Because in that case you'd know they're just numbers of the periscope lines, or "milirads" as I like to call them. While the main reticule had 1 tick every 2 miliradians (the 5'th tick being numbered "10"), the AOB wheel has one tick for each miliradian. English labels: They're included as an optional in OMEGU, just enable as you would do with any mod. Autoupdate Button on Attack Map: It does the same thing as clicking the one on the Periscope Screen. The only problem is that if you click it once and then leave the screen, the "blue lit, unlit" behavior of the one on the Attack Periscope will invert. It's just a graphical error and nothing I can fix. All dials work the same way. And yes, even in the Attack Map screen you still need to put Autoupdate OFF to enter data into the TDC.

03-09-11, 10:27 PM	#6
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	!@#$**#! I had what looked to be a good solution and then I went to the Attack Map and acitvated the TDC. I had been using the TDC on the Periscope screen to input the data entries. But the last time I looked at the Attack Map, I activated it and entered the Aob, I thought. Now that I think aobut it, maybe I didn't updatee the Aob when I activated it, as I had entered it on the Periscope screen. I went back to the Periscope screen. The TDC was still activated and the solution looked good as I had input the date before I activated the Attrack Screen TDC, so I fired. I returned to the Attack Map. The gyro angle had changed. All the shots missed. Is it possible that by activating the Attack Map, the Aob that is entered on it overrides the Aob entered previously on the Periscope screen? Regardless, I am taking a break for awhile. This is qutie frustrating. Plus, in the sub school mission, I cannot get hydrophone readings and when I try to save the mission the game crashes, so I have to start from scratch when I replay it. Maybe someone can make a practice mission that I can save, so I don't have to start anew each time.