Do racing games negatively affect driving habits?

[Weiss Pinguin]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I do think that a person who plays a great deal of call of duty or Silent Hunter 3 for example - might be much more inclined to join the Army or the Navy than a person who does not play such games.

Playing Silent Hunter 3 and becoming interested in the history of the war in the Atlantic has caused me to read half a dozen books on the subject that i otherwise might have skipped over in the book store without the influence of the subsim genre. Therefore, in some way - i was influenced by the simulation.

Additionally; Though i had always been interested in airplanes, i had my career sights firmly set on being an architect - had my father not purchased Microsoft Flight Simulator for me in my early teens... i might not have become a big fan of the MSFS Series and ultimately i may not have chosen aviation as a career path over architecture.

Ah, but these aren't necessarily exampes of a simulation influencing someone's real world motor skills/habits, are they? Do you personally regularly play flying sims, and if so, do you think it influences how you fly in the real world? IMO in the case of certain sim types/games (like call of duty, SH3 etc), the way you perform actions on a computer and the way you would perform them in the real world are so vastly different that doing them in one wouldn't affect the other. But then there is a psychological aspect too; you'd probably have a different mindset while doing something in a game than you might have while doing that same action in the real world, and they might carry over and influence each other And then there is not much difference between the physical actions of playing a racing game or flight sim and and the real life equivalent.

as reinforcement to my above personality trait comment... i knew a kid who grew up playing the Gran Turismo series as well. He routinely achieved 100+ MPH on the local highway - and always applied the breaks very heavily into turns - waiting until he was right on the turn to decelerate. I can only assume either he was a moron - or he was influences by the GT Series - or both.

IMO anyone who lets a racing game like GT influence how he drives day to day is a moron And honestly, how many people who don't regularly play driving games exceed the speed limit on a routine basis, and on the flipside, how many people who do go bat*$&@ insane in their racing games drive like a regular person in the real world?

Personally, I think if you keep in mind that there are differences between playing a game and real life that what works in a game is not always a good idea outside, a lot of negative influencing can be eliminated; Don't go driving outside with the same mindset you would have doing laps around a virtual race track.

[Growler]

As a converse to your argument, GR, I loved aircraft before I learned to fly, armor before I worked in Bradleys... in both cases, long before sims existed for me to virtually play in 'em. Sims gave me an increased respect for people who use the things simulated for real, but I harbor no illusions - playing F/A-18 for Falcon 3 did not make me a carrier pilot, any more than playing Grand Theft Auto - Vice City made me a criminal.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Weiss Pinguin

Ah, but these aren't necessarily examples of a simulation influencing someone's real world motor skills/habits, are they?

Yes they are. "Training" in the technical sense IS modifying or changing someones thought process, behavior, habits or motor skills through instruction.

If a person is influenced in ANY sense - the racing simulation has had SOME effect on them.

besides the question was "Do racing sims negatively effect driving habits?" NOT "Do racing sims influence skill?"

of course, as i said... i think that a driver who frequently plays racing simulations DOES experience both negative and positive influences from his experiences in the simulator.

Originally Posted by Weiss Pinguin

Do you personally regularly play flying sims, and if so, do you think it influences how you fly in the real world?

without a doubt it does. Occasionally, when flying to an airport where i have never been, i will load up the instrument approaches for that airport and fly them in the simulator before i attempt a trip in real life. Additionally, lets take a look at my experience as a flight instructor in real life.

two people come in for day one introductory flying lessons.

Person A knows what an airplane is, and has even been a passenger a few times before, but thats the limit of their experience.

Person B is an avid flight simulator enthusiast with a yoke and pedals at home and perhaps thousands of "play hours"

as anyone might expect... Person A performs the prescribed tasks with moderate difficulty and a desire to learn more and understand an thus signs up for lessons. They attend their training sessions for about 7 months and acquire a private pilot's certificate.

Person B on the other hand, knows technical lingo. he knows the names of the flight instruments and how to interpret their indications, He understands the effects of the flight controls and has a somewhat advanced understanding of what he is trying to accomplish. But he also has some bad habits that have been picked up and reinforced by the flight simulator experience he has. he tends to stare at the instrumentation rather than pay any attention to whats going on outside. if he has rudder pedals at home he is heavy on ruder input... if he has no pedals at home, he uses NO rudder at all. eventually he signs up for lessons and receives his license after 60 days of training.

I have seen this exact scenario a dozen times.

Originally Posted by Weiss Pinguin

IMO anyone who lets a racing game like GT influence how he drives day to day is a moron

First... i guess you consider me a moron because only a few posts back, i openly admitted that racing simulation had both positive and negative effects on my own driving when i was younger.

love you too

EDIT: i think susceptibility to the influence of racing sim on driving habit is directly related to personality type.

Originally Posted by Weiss Pinguin

And honestly, how many people who don't regularly play driving games exceed the speed limit on a routine basis,

take a look at the article that was linked in the original post... according to their small scale study

Drivers who play racing games are:

15% more likely to make an insurance claim
23% more likely to take risks
23% more likely to suffer road rage

when compared to drivers who do not play racing sims

the list includes other things

more likely to speed, get pulled over by the police, crash a vehicle etc

i think a more in depth study would be required, however i think the findings will be much the same.

Dont get me wrong- Racing sims are among my favorite games despite the fact that i have not played one in years... its just that im open to the possibility - nay - the extreme probability that racing games influence a drivers decision making and habits.

[VipertheSniper]

Well classing overtaking at risk, is a bit troublesome I have to say, while I can remember one risky overtaking maneuver I've done (trying to overtake a car, a truck and a truck with a trailer at once), the rest have all been in circumstances I wouldn't classify as risky (3/4 of a km no car in the oncoming lane in sight).

That one risky maneuver gave me a quite a scare tho, I wouldn't do something like that ever again, I had to pull in behind the truck with the trailer, otherwise it would've been goodbye.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Well if you made homework a risque and sneaky adult thing... teenagers would be getting excellent grades in school

Fact is, from as early as 13, my dad used to hand me a beer while we were working on a car or sitting around watching a movie or whatever... it became this "no big deal" sort of thing.

If parents were to approach it like that - i think more young people would be more "adult" or more "mature" about drinking alcohol and less likely to drink without considering the consequences - or to drink and drive etc.

the thing about forbidden pleasures - is that they are much more desirable than the pleasures that are easily had, and as long as people treat casual consumption of alcohol as this sort of mysterious adults only play thing - teens are going to be increasingly attracted to it.

Really a lot of wisdom to that. I can count the numbers of my friends that went to fundie churches growing up go hog wild when they turned 18.

My dad would let me drink a beer when we went fishing, cook outs after I was 16, always said if I needed to smoke or try something to let him know and we could do it together and discuss it without punishment. A parent doing this correctly can get a good end result.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I do think that a person who plays a great deal of call of duty or Silent Hunter 3 for example - might be much more inclined to join the Army or the Navy than a person who does not play such games.

I wanted to join the Kriegsmarine after playing SH3, but they told me that the application deadline ended in May 1945

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Playing Silent Hunter 3 and becoming interested in the history of the war in the Atlantic has caused me to read half a dozen books on the subject that i otherwise might have skipped over in the book store without the influence of the subsim genre. Therefore, in some way - i was influenced by the simulation.

This is also true for me, before SH3 I had no special interest in submarines, though always in WW2. Now I have many books on the subject in my shelf - still not enough

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Additionally; Though i had always been interested in airplanes, i had my career sights firmly set on being an architect - had my father not purchased Microsoft Flight Simulator for me in my early teens... i might not have become a big fan of the MSFS Series and ultimately i may not have chosen aviation as a career path over architecture.

Would you say that playing a flightsim did help you to prepare for your training? Was it easier to learn it, compared to pilots who never played one before? - IF there are pilots who never did so.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Would you say that playing a flightsim did help you to prepare for your training? Was it easier to learn it, compared to pilots who never played one before?

I would say that it did help me. However, I was more aware of how it helped people when i was their instructor and they were the student.

Originally Posted by Penguin

IF there are pilots who never did so.

Believe it or not, several students of mine had never heard of microsoft flight simulator and were elated to discover that there was something that would allow them to practice at home.

[August]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I think if a person were to study the driving habits of 18-24 year old males... for a 6 month period without any video games - then study their driving habits for a 6 month period while playing at least one or two hours of racing games per day the results might be surprising.

I think it would depend on how accurately the driving game compares to real life.

[August]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I would say that it did help me. However, I was more aware of how it helped people when i was their instructor and they were the student.

Interesting. How exactly did it help you GR? I've read that sims main benefit is learning checklists and procedures, not so much the "feel" of flying.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by August

Interesting. How exactly did it help you GR? I've read that sims main benefit is learning checklists and procedures, not so much the "feel" of flying.

Familiarity with the concept of flying. Names of the flight instruments, interpretation of their indications, terminology.

Things like that.

[Skybird]

Feel of flying you cannot get from staring at a monitor. But you can study and learn the way complex instruments are meant to work and present their information, and you can learn to make sense of what you read on the instruments. You can also learn to navigate and fly by instruments. On flying, you can at least get a theoretic understanding of what the plane will do and behave like if you do this or that with the stick and pedals (for example slipstreaming and crosswind landing).

In other words a simulation can be a wonderful animated illustration of what the theory book tries to explain in many abstract words. Seeing is believing, and a single animation can say so much more than a hundred pages.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Yes they are. "Training" in the technical sense IS modifying or changing someones thought process, behavior, habits or motor skills through instruction.

But those three paragraphs don't! At least not the way you presented those examples... those are more cases of either someone playing a game and learning about a possible interest they might have not known about before, or someone who's already geared that way just doing something related to his interests.

besides the question was "Do racing sims negatively effect driving habits?" NOT "Do racing sims influence skill?"

Also by motor skill I meant something like:

a learned sequence of movements that combine to produce a smooth, efficient action in order to master a particular task

(from the wikipedia)
or, How you do something, not necessarily How good you are at doing it (although I suppose the quoted description could make it sound like the latter)

Anyway just wanted to clarify that... Carry on...

[GoldenRivet]

obviously a definitive scientific study would be needed to determine whether or not racing games have any impact on a persons driving habit.

my opinion is that, in most -not all- cases, driving games do have some impact on a persons driving habits.

i think that the susceptibility a person has to experiencing those influences depends on several factors like age, exposure and personality type