Dear striking teachers in Wisconsin...

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Which supports a need for unions to keep employers from running sweat shops. What we have now is a reflection of our political polarity where the need for compromises must be forced upon us.

I've never been a union employee, and work for the only non-unionized department in my workplace, but I appreciate what unions have done to keep employers from abusing their employees.

In a perfect world there would be no need for unions and no need for absurdly inflated executive salaries. Not socialism, but fair and sensibly run capitalism.

The problem is unions want more, they have overstepped and that seems to be the agenda the last 20 years.

My brother worked for a truck outfit non union, but had great pay and benefits. The employees pushed union, it was about a 50/50 split. The man made it clear if they went union, he would sell out or close up and a rather large SE firm. It got a lil ugly, but the union won by a few votes. The man shut it down, all lost their great jobs. Those that didn't want it got screwed. After several months Fed-Ex purchased the company, they're union. My brother applied there and luckily got a job, but guess what, pay was less.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Armistead

The problem is unions want more, they have overstepped and that seems to be the agenda the last 20 years.

And so have employers and that is the extremism I refer to. How many companies hire only part timers now for small pay and no benefits while CEO's make millions upon millions, then offshore to avoid taxes?

[Penguin]

What I always find odd, is that most seem to think that working for many hours a week somehow proofs that they are diligent and hard-working. It just proofs that they spend many hours at work.
It's all about effectiveness. Some people need 6 hours for a task, some 8, some longer.
Personally, I prefer to work 6 hours with full speed and concentration, with no breaks over sitting on the ass for 12 hours and not doing much. Sadly, also those exhausting 12 hour days without break often happen , but after some days you are burned out when you work in a fast-paced environment.

[August]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

And so have employers and that is the extremism I refer to. How many companies hire only part timers now for small pay and no benefits while CEO's make millions upon millions, then offshore to avoid taxes?

The salary of CEO's is approved by the company stockholders. If you have a beef with executive pay rates then take it up with them. Neither you or anyone else has a right to tell people what to pay their employees.

[yubba]

This is what happens when you run out of other peoples money, I worry about my folks who are retired New York State workers, they don't have a clue what's about to happen.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by August

The salary of CEO's is approved by the company stockholders. If you have a beef with executive pay rates then take it up with them. Neither you or anyone else has a right to tell people what to pay their employees.

Agreed. I just think these boardrooms could care less about sustaining anything as long as their greed is satisfied while they're on board. Same goes for union management.

Many folks working multiple jobs are working across different employers, where rather than a 40 hour and 20 hour, they're on two 30 hour gigs. In many US states, an employee must regularly work 32+ hours across several weeks to be eligible for benefits as a full time employee

Yep, one decent job with proper hours and a decent contract is whats needed, that tends to go out the window without collective bargaining as eventually every employee gets knocked down to what the biggest muppet will accept which of course means the firm will end up only being able to recruit muppets.

On price" I'm guessing means the same as "salaried" or "contracted" here in the States

Set price for the contract(but additionaly negotiate and settle in writing for the inevitable extras that arise), it doesn't matter how many hours or how few you do its just a matter of completing before any time limit.
knock it out in a week or drag it out for 3 months as long as you meet the deadline its sound.

Especially considering that the bill they are protesting has NOTHING TO DO WITH TEACHERS.

CAPS LOCK strikes again(pardon the pun), it has nothing to do with police, it has nothing to do with state troopers, it has nothing to do with firefighters, but it is to do with teachers if they are government employees.

[Bubblehead1980]

My initial post was more of a rant than anything, I had just watched some of the protests and was rather annoyed.I was also on my way out the door for the evening so did not have much time to explain the issue.

Public Employees seem to have a sense of entitlement in America these days, esp teachers.The benefits and pay public employees enjoy have proven unsustainable on both the Fed and State level.Governor Walker is simply trying to do his job and get the budget under control by going after the budget busting contributions the union managed to get thanks to the Dems, mostly.

Teachers really want something to be mad about, just wait until the state goes bankrupt and can not contribute anything.They are being selfish and harming students as well as their image.Not sure how Wisconsin law is but would love to see Walker fire some teachers that refuse to return, as Reagan did the air traffic controllers.Time for real change is upon us, hope Governor Walker sticks it out, he is on the right side of this one.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

My initial post was more of a rant than anything, I had just watched some of the protests and was rather annoyed.I was also on my way out the door for the evening so did not have much time to explain the issue.

Public Employees seem to have a sense of entitlement in America these days, esp teachers.The benefits and pay public employees enjoy have proven unsustainable on both the Fed and State level.Governor Walker is simply trying to do his job and get the budget under control by going after the budget busting contributions the union managed to get thanks to the Dems, mostly.

Teachers really want something to be mad about, just wait until the state goes bankrupt and can not contribute anything.They are being selfish and harming students as well as their image.Not sure how Wisconsin law is but would love to see Walker fire some teachers that refuse to return, as Reagan did the air traffic controllers.Time for real change is upon us, hope Governor Walker sticks it out, he is on the right side of this one.

So what it really comes down to is that you don't like teachers. That's okay, I don't like lawyers.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

So what it really comes down to is that you don't like teachers. That's okay, I don't like lawyers.

Game, set, match.

[yubba]

Well this is a real testimony to our educational system outside of that it sucks, no one knows any math or bookkeeping, so that's how we got into this mess in the first place. I don't remember being taught ponsie scheme's in school, right from the local level to the Fed. Well boys and girls, I hope you all boned up on your Mad Max and Red Dawn.

Its good to see that wisconsins firefighters are joinimg the protests objecting to the legislation even though they are not targeted by the proposal.

[Buddahaid]

Pay aside I'd hate to be a teacher today. The ones I know can't wait to retire a get away from the mass of uncooperative brats who do have a huge sense of entitlement. It's a burn out job with a few bright spots mixed in.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Its good to see that wisconsins firefighters are joinimg the protests objecting to the legislation even though they are not targeted by the proposal.

Because they're union...

Sure, we all would complain if we had to take less. They want their power to negotiate, yet still force all non union employees to pay union dues.
The fact remains the large majority of voters there support Walker.

The large majority of us don't get high union wages. If the private sector had the wages, pensions and benefits of unions, we couldn't compete in the global market. The fact remains, the private citizens that pay these perks ,we or the employers that hire us can't even give them to us, but not only do we do without, we must pay it for you. To ask for them to pay a small percent for these benefits isn't much. If they want the right to renegotiate, they're gonna have to give up unfair items. This is just a start, with all local and state governments going broke or bankrupt, unions will soon be reduced to the wages and benefits of the private sector.

No doubt the GOP push of corporate elitism has destroyed decent wages and benefits for private america. It's also made it impossible for the private sector to support the large perks and wages of unions in the public sector.
I have no problem with unions that are non public that want to pay all these perks based on the money they make. Unions have no business in the public sector.

I'm afraid unions will slowly fade in the future due to corporate elitism in a global economy that our politicians make work for everyone but the US middle class.

[yubba]

Gee it just dawn on me , who works for who ? I for one, won' t bust my hump for a lousy wage ,with no future and give up a high percentage of my pay so some public sector bum, can get better wages and a great retirement. Just remember what ever percentage of taxes they take out of you, that's how much you work for the government, damned If I'm going to spend a quarter to half of my life working for the government, for nothing.