Workers take over media outlet in Venezuela

[August]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Your "refuge" friends are either petti-bourgeois or part of the 20 percent of bourgeois when the country was under Perez, who profited off the oil and was found guilty then fled to the US "like most US-backed dictators". Yes the Venezuelan exiles are everywhere. In Venezuela is a media war. The private media is constantly "in alliance with the US state department", demonizing Chavez, staging events, and the CIA even tried to assinate him in a coup in 2002. IMF/World bank hates democracy. Before Chavez inflation was near 70 percent, now it has greatly decreased. Also, the bolivar is the currency not the peso. My friend actually lives there and laughs at the exiles, and gringos who believe this garbage they're fed, when he can say/do more against his government than Americans can i theirs. In USA can you go around planning assassination of your president, or advocating death of your presidents? Of course not, this is what RCTV, or the other us-backed media does constantly. Workers control is alive in Venezuela, and the people will not take crap from either the US/IMF or any other imperialist institutions. They are on a independent path in alliance with other several Latin American countries. You will see Latin America turn RED. Also the rest of the world laughs at Americans believing what they do especially about Venezuela and Hugo Chavez. Also Hugo Chavez is advocating for similar democratic participatory movements, and people are following the example of the Bolivarian revolution. Personally, I think the people should smash the bourgeoisie, because it is a revolution. The only difference is they are doing it peacefully and democratically. And again, socialism is not government control, socialism is any economic theory/practice advocating workers control of the means of production, via interdependently or through the state. Neoliberalism destroyed Argentina (via privatizing all assets through banks/IMF loans, and they want to do the same with Venezula. Hugo Chavez and the venezulan people say no, and that is why all that propaganda is against him. Socialism vs neoliberalism, and socialism is winning.

So now you have a Venezuelan friend too? That's convenient.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by August

So now you have a Venezuelan friend too? That's convenient.

Yes I have comrades all over the world.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Yes I have comrades all over the world.

Where are you from? Also, your link provides no hard statistics. Of course there is little inequality in Venezuela; there is no incentive for economic growth or personal gain. History teaches us that the people will eventually grow weary enough of this to revolt.

[Oberon]

My money is on Belgium.

[Penguin]

good for them. I hope they won't be closed down when they oppose the ruling elite, as this happened to other media outlets....

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

[regarding Venezuela + Sweden]Factories are not under workers' control in either nation. They are under government control;

no mate, most factories/companies in Sweden are private enterprises. In fact the elected government is centre/right (in European terms) and they did a lot of privatization of government-owned companies in the last years - Alsolut Vodka being the most prominent. The swedish state used to have a lot of influence on the economy, however.

Originally Posted by redsocialist

In Venezuela is a media war. The private media is constantly "in alliance with the US state department", demonizing Chavez, staging events

she said it better than me:

Originally Posted by Rosa Luxemburg

Freedom only for the supporters of the government, only for the members of a party – however numerous they may be – is no freedom at all. Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter.

Originally Posted by redsocialist

he can say/do more against his government than Americans can i theirs.

that's why demonstrations in Venezuela are being dispersed or are declared illegal? If you think this is only burgeoise media propaganda, check out leftist sources like indymedia and read what (left) opposition voices report there about demonstrations. Guess, being against the government makes them counter-revolutionary and so a liable target for being shot at/beaten down...

Originally Posted by redsocialist

In USA can you go around planning assassination of your president, or advocating death of your presidents?

I'm no US citizen, but I think making plans to kill someone isn't exactly illegal - the execution of such plan is...

Advocating death, here is a song about someone who wishes death to Bush: f bush like his father did
indirect link, because this burgeoise, fascist, counter-revolutionary board censors the f-word
(maybe not safe for everyone's work)
the band is still not in prison...

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I'm no US citizen, but I think making plans to kill someone isn't exactly illegal - the execution of such plan is.....

Oh no, it's illegal and in a big way. Of course that depends on the definition of "plans" - however a serious intention with a means to do it is going to land you in jail for a looooooooooooooong time. See all these would-be terrorists convicted recently.

Likewise, uttering threats, especially in person, can be taken very seriously indeed.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Oh no, it's illegal and in a big way. Of course that depends on the definition of "plans" - however a serious intention with a means to do it is going to land you in jail for a looooooooooooooong time. See all these would-be terrorists convicted recently.

Likewise, uttering threats, especially in person, can be taken very seriously indeed.

Yeah, there's a big difference between wishing someone were dead, or wanting to kill them, and making plans to do so. Making plans to carry out a killing demonstrates an intent to kill, not just wishful thinking.

[Catfish]

SWEDEN A SOCIALIST COUNTRY ?!


Any one watch too much Fox news ?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Catfish

SWEDEN A SOCIALIST COUNTRY ?!


Any one watch too much Fox news ?

I don't watch any Fox News. But Sweden does have a higher degree of government control. My point was that since this seems to work well for Sweden, and since the people have democratically elected their leaders and chose to have this type of government, why do militant socialists not hold up Sweden as an example of socialism being both sustainable and compatible with democracy? Why is there always the want for dictatorship and oligarchy?

I am not exactly sure how you were able to read my comment as being pejorative. I was actually holding Sweden up as an example of functional socialism.

[Dan D]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I don't watch any Fox News. But Sweden does have a higher degree of government control. My point was that since this seems to work well for Sweden, and since the people have democratically elected their leaders and chose to have this type of government, why do militant socialists not hold up Sweden as an example of socialism being both sustainable and compatible with democracy? Why is there always the want for dictatorship and oligarchy?

I am not exactly sure how you were able to read my comment as being pejorative. I was actually holding Sweden up as an example of functional socialism.

I think you guys have a language problem which I would describe like this:
"Socialist" in Europe or at least in Germany is understood differently, more in the sense of someone being radical who want to overthrow any democratic form of government, like e.g. in "Socialist Republic of East-Germany", it has an almost insulting tone like "Communist pig".

Sweden, that would be "Social-Democrats" in Europe, moderate left from center, left but still mainstream, not undemocratic, more like that. To describe Sweden as a "socialist" country, that sounds just weird to Europeans because it gets misunderstood.

It is one of those little cultural gaps between the US and Europe imo.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Dan D

I think you guys have a language problem which I would describe like this:
"Socialist" in Europe or at least in Germany is understood differently, more in the sense of someone being radical who want to overthrow any democratic form of government, like e.g. in "Socialist Republic of East-Germany", it has an almost insulting tone like "Communist pig".

Sweden, that would be "Social-Democrats" in Europe, moderate left from center, left but still mainstream, not undemocratic, more like that. To describe Sweden as a "socialist" country, that sounds just weird to Europeans because it gets misunderstood.

It is one of those little cultural gaps between the US and Europe imo.

Ah, well that explains it. My apologies, then; I didn't mean to imply that Sweden was not a liberal democracy. It's leaders are legitimately elected, which is why I was trying to contrast it with Venezuela.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Dan D

I think you guys have a language problem which I would describe like this:
"Socialist" in Europe or at least in Germany is understood differently, more in the sense of someone being radical who want to overthrow any democratic form of government, like e.g. in "Socialist Republic of East-Germany", it has an almost insulting tone like "Communist pig".

Sweden, that would be "Social-Democrats" in Europe, moderate left from center, left but still mainstream, not undemocratic, more like that. To describe Sweden as a "socialist" country, that sounds just weird to Europeans because it gets misunderstood.

It is one of those little cultural gaps between the US and Europe imo.

Ehm, not exactly. At least not in the Netherlands. Maybe it is like that in Germany, but please don't say it's the "European" meaning.
In the Netherlands, socialism generally means democratic socialism. See for example the Dutch Socialist Party (I usually vote for them). I have never seen them advocate any dictatorship.

In fact, what you describe as the "European" viewpoint, is IMO more like the US view on socialism. The US generally see socialism as the kind of "socialism" in Venezuela etc. while at least here in the Netherlands we see it as democratic socialism. The "dicatorship-socialism" is usually called communism here.