New budget proposal

[redsocialist]

I don't beleive "Americacuns" appeared out of no where. I know it was Europeans that came to this land, to take other lands with a different flag. That assumption makes quite a bit of since and you just proved my point thank you. As for spain, yes spain is another imperialist country with just as many deaths/crime as the American Empire. yes, spain probably was more brutal, however we supported the fascists in spain in 1937. Even though Americans volunteered to fight the fascists in the International brigades. I would of volunteered if I was around that time. I'm not trying to come across as hate or propaganda machine. I do not agree or applaud the actions of Jospeh Stalin and the purges, however I beleive that the numbers said against him is not accurate, and a bad excuse to use against communism or socialism. Not all socialist states had little freedom. Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia was just about as free as Americans have now inside they're country if not more. I know there are arabic governments against Israel that are dictatorships. So what? I hate the zionist Israeli government for the murder and genocide, as well as the illeagle occupation of Palestinians. They suffer far more than Israel does from Hamas which is a legit political party. China has its roots in Imperialism, however they were a victim of imperialism as well from Europe. Have you heard of the boxers rebellion?

Here are references for all the US backed dictators. Take it or leave it, if you doubt something further research it yourself.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US...dictators.html

Again I don't mean to sound like a propaganda machine, my point is all around the world we are organizing, weather it be socialist/communist/anarchists or other leftist factions to build a new united left front against the oppression of imperialism. Its growing every day. Thats all. We are witnessing the death of capitalism, and the imperialists are using corporate fascism to save it.

You asked me what I think... I'm sorry if I come across hateful but I really think the USA as a state is the world's biggest terrorist. My point being I do not see any difference in dropping a Mk84 bomb from 65,000 ft saying "Mark 2, drop", and a insurgent in the middle east running to a building, with an IED, saying Alluahakbar. In reality, the Mk84 bomb kills 10 times as many civilians. Thats worse than the so called "terrorist". Or the curfues set by the US military, the stomping in homes, and killing women, children, fathers because they are suspected "terrorist", is terrorism coming from the state of USA. The private contractors roaming around gunning down civilians, or the "bad apples" raping women then killing them, coming from the US military. That is wrong and thats how I feel. To change this? I think if enough people woke up and found out what they're government is really doing, and thought about changing the system, then we may have a good chance of stopping. However, many people are duped in American Idol, MTV, the corporate media etc and couldn't give a damn about the rest of the world. But I think its to late, so its interesting ho it will all play out. Most of the world knows what USA and the imperialists in they're countries are really doing, so not everyone's duped.

[August]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Yes, your right some of these concepts Ihave very little understanding of, I'm just giving my take on it, and I'm sorry if it came out a bit harsh, I just wanted to wake people up a little bit so they can see where the spending is really going. Thats all!

What makes you think that you know where the spending is really going? What are your qualifications?

[August]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia was just about as free as Americans have now inside they're country if not more.

Ok now I know you're just trolling.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by August

Ok now I know you're just trolling.

No, I'm not trolling its true. I don't care if you beleive it or not. My friend, was born and lived there it was a free country, you could do w/e you want, literally what ever you wanted. You could even own guns which I am a huge supporter of obviously.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by August

What makes you think that you know where the spending is really going? What are your qualifications?

Lol, August... anyone can know where it is just look it up. You can see the federal budget plan "official document" of all the spending. Add all the sectors, defense, state department (which is the imperialist agenda) and you see how much spending there is. However, they do leave a lot out, like funding political parties, dictators military aid etc... Some of which is published in the press, like the 400 billion to Saudi Arabia for aircraft.

Hell don't take a anarcho-communist's word for it, take a highly respected libertarian politician's word for it, Ron Paul

[August]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

No, I'm not trolling its true. I don't care if you beleive it or not. My friend, was born and lived there it was a free country, you could do w/e you want, literally what ever you wanted. You could even own guns which I am a huge supporter of obviously.

This is where the propaganda you've swallowed fails.

If your friend had bad mouthed Tito like you bad mouth your country he would have ended up in a jail cell or a shallow grave somewhere. Yugoslavia was certainly better than the USSR, but a dictatorship, no matter how benevolent, just can't be compared to our form of government.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

I don't beleive "Americacuns" appeared out of no where. I know it was Europeans that came to this land, to take other lands with a different flag.

And yet you continue to blame 'America' of willfully exterminating three hundred million people, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the truth.

That assumption makes quite a bit of since and you just proved my point thank you. As for spain, yes spain is another imperialist country with just as many deaths/crime as the American Empire.

Which American Empire is that?

yes, spain probably was more brutal, however we supported the fascists in spain in 1937.

Which has what to do with either the original topic or your 'brutality' comparison?

Sidebar:

would of volunteered if I was around that time.

It's "would have".

I'm not trying to come across as hate or propaganda machine.

And yet you do, and here's why:

I do not agree or applaud the actions of Jospeh Stalin and the purges, however I beleive that the numbers said against him is not accurate, and a bad excuse to use against communism or socialism. Not all socialist states had little freedom. Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia was just about as free as Americans have now inside they're country if not more.

There is nothing wrong with making those arguments, but you don't try to make those arguments. The first thing you do is launch into an anti-American tirade, accusing the US of being far worse than any other country that has ever existed. That's not a defense, that's an attack, and gets treated as such.

[quote]I know there are arabic governments against Israel that are dictatorships. So what? I hate the zionist Israeli government for the murder and genocide, as well as the illeagle occupation of Palestinians.[quote]
There are Arabs in the Israeli government, and Arabs within the borders of Israel are treated the same as everyone else. In Arabic countries Jews are not tolerated at all.

As to the Palestinians, up until 1967 Jordan owned that land. The bordering Arab states attacked Israel, and Israel won. Part of that winning was to take the West Bank, which the Arabs had used to attack. No one ever complained about the plight of the Palestinians under Jordan - this only started when the Israelis were suddenly the "occupiers". The PLO under Yassir Arafat waged war against Israel, and when Israel retaliated they were labelled "agressors". Please show your claimed "genocide".

You asked me what I think... I'm sorry if I come across hateful but I really think the USA as a state is the world's biggest terrorist.

And you're certainly entitled to believe that, and even to argue it. What's wrong is the old saying "It's not what you say, it's how you say it."

My point being I do not see any difference in dropping a Mk84 bomb from 65,000 ft saying "Mark 2, drop", and a insurgent in the middle east running to a building, with an IED, saying Alluahakbar.

Nor do I. The difference I do see, however, is that we actually try to avoid that where we can. The problem is that their type of "fighting" involves hiding among civilians and using them as shields. This means that we try to target the military, and sometimes civilians get hurt. They intentionally target civilians on a regular basis, and sometimes actually get some military. They are also willing to blow up any of their own people who disagree with them.

In reality, the Mk84 bomb kills 10 times as many civilians. Thats worse than the so called "terrorist".

You'll have to show that that's true.

Or the curfues set by the US military, the stomping in homes, and killing women, children, fathers because they are suspected "terrorist", is terrorism coming from the state of USA.

When some of our own commit atrocities we bring them to trial, and when the military fails we have a free press which puts them on the spot. When they do the same they justify it by saying that anyone who doesn't believe as they do must die.

Again, Skybird and I recently had a huge argument over the Muslims being allowed to build a mosque near Ground Zero in New York City. The arguments aside, show me an Arabic country where a similar discussion would even be tolerated. If you or I wrote articles in any of them we would risk being arrested and possibly shot. Doesn't happen here, or in Germany. So in that respect we are indeed more free than any country you try to compare us to.

The rest of your argument, about us being "duped", obviously doesn't apply to many of us here. I could just as easily accuse you of being duped, or even brainwashed, based solely on your narrow viewpoint and faith-like conviction that you are absolutely right about everything you believe.

[August]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

Hell don't take a anarcho-communist's word for it,

I wouldn't take an anarchists word for anything.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by August

This is where the propaganda you've swallowed fails.

If your friend had bad mouthed Tito like you bad mouth your country he would have ended up in a jail cell or a shallow grave somewhere. Yugoslavia was certainly better than the USSR, but a dictatorship, no matter how benevolent, just can't be compared to our form of government.

This is where the propaganda machine you swallowed fails. You could bad mouth Tito there, or the government, many people did and they weren't put in jail or executed. Tito only jailed or executed, the butchers of Ustasha who were a nazi group that would go around butchering up civilians with knives. And yes you could have as much if not more freedom. All socialism means, is workers control over production. That was in there in SFRJ. Socialism is not this scary dark place of doom like you make it out to be lol.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by redsocialist

This is where the propaganda machine you swallowed fails. You could bad mouth Tito there, or the government, many people did and they weren't put in jail or executed. Tito only jailed or executed, the butchers of Ustasha who were a nazi group that would go around butchering up civilians with knives. And yes you could have as much if not more freedom. All socialism means, is workers control over production. That was in there in SFRJ. Socialism is not this scary dark place of doom like you make it out to be lol.

Really? Can you show that to be true?

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Really? Can you show that to be true?

Yea, I could have my friend on here and you could ask him all your wondering about SFRJ. Though obviously will say, its me pretending... What should I do? I beleive what he told me, I'v known him for years.

[redsocialist]

Rock Partyzani Band!

[tater]

We also don't spend 2 trillion a year on defense. More like half a trillion. The bulk of the US budget is spent on socialist programs (medicaid, medicare, social security).

The Croatian allies of the National Socialists during WW2 have the distinction of killing the highest % of their people in history of governments killing their own citizens. Full stop. They bumped off 7-*% of their population per year during the Nazi period. Note that all the top-shelf murdering nations have had strong, central (socialist) control. All.

Socialism is not a sufficient condition for mass democide, but it's a necessary condition.

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by tater

We also don't spend 2 trillion a year on defense. More like half a trillion. The bulk of the US budget is spent on socialist programs (medicaid, medicare, social security).

The Croatian allies of the National Socialists during WW2 have the distinction of killing the highest % of their people in history of governments killing their own citizens. Full stop. They bumped off 7-*% of their population per year during the Nazi period. Note that all the top-shelf murdering nations have had strong, central (socialist) control. All.

Socialism is not a sufficient condition for mass democide, but it's a necessary condition.

First of all, national socialism is not socialism LMAO. The first victims of "socialist" hitler were the working class organizers, the SPD, and the communist Party. Union organizers were jailed, and Hitler created a fascist state merging corporations and the government similar to what we have now in USA. Also, US corporations like IBM, and ITT had the luxuery of doing business with the nazis. Hilarous how you right wingers love to label nazis as socialists, then use nazism as an argument against socialism. Gotta love it. Sorry I don't mean to be insulting its just hilarious

And no we spend at least 2 trillion, search again. Your only including defense, what you don't realize there' smore lables of spending going towards the imperialist agenda than "defense".

[redsocialist]

Originally Posted by tater

The Croatian allies of the National Socialists during WW2 have the distinction of killing the highest % of their people in history of governments killing their own citizens. Full stop. They bumped off 7-*% of their population per year during the Nazi period.

yes thank you for proving my point! The deserved to be jailed and executed, justice was served! Same apply to the war criminals in the US and around the world, should have the same fate. Unfortuently, the ustasha is still active