[REL] Depth keeping problem fixed

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

The overshooting is not necessarily an issue. A submarine is not an elevator. Depending on speed, rate of dive, water conditions/temperature/salinity, weight, weight distribution, you can easily overshoot. This is more of a problem the deeper you go since air compresses and the rate of sinking increases with depth. A certain oscillation around the ordered depth until the diving officer gets it nice and stable would not be abnormal.

from wikipedia, but close enough:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submari...n_and_trimming

This. I also think that is very normal that under a certain depth with minimal speed the sub will start to slowly sink, mostly because the bigger water pressure that will overcome the air pressure from the tanks. To have control on depth again, the only way is to increase the speed.

So I think is nothing wrong with the depth control in the game. Stretching the depth limit is only to escape from the sonar, but it has his risk. Problem is that no matter how deep we go, with IRAI enabled, the escort will still ping you down. Just last night I dived down to 258m and they still pinged me and drooped very precise dc's over me. At that depth is no way to survive with a dc near the sub, its insta kill.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Magnum

This. I also think that is very normal that under a certain depth with minimal speed the sub will start to slowly sink, mostly because the bigger water pressure that will overcome the air pressure from the tanks. To have control on depth again, the only way is to increase the speed.

Back in the early days of SH3, when the buoyancy issue arose for the first time, there was a debate on whether to implement positive or negative buoyancy. IIRC, the general conclusion was that submarines (not just uboats) were built to have a slight positive buoyancy, precisely for the case of engine/battery failures. Eventually, one supermod took the positive buoyancy path, while the other went with the negative one. Though I'm no expert, common sense tells me positive buoyancy should have been norm back then, with less advanced batteries and electric motors, prone to failure.

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by dcb

Back in the early days of SH3, when the buoyancy issue arose for the first time, there was a debate on whether to implement positive or negative buoyancy. IIRC, the general conclusion was that submarines (not just uboats) were built to have a slight positive buoyancy, precisely for the case of engine/battery failures. Eventually, one supermod took the positive buoyancy path, while the other went with the negative one. Though I'm no expert, common sense tells me positive buoyancy should have been norm back then, with less advanced batteries and electric motors, prone to failure.

Using stock settings I can dive and keep depth without using the engines down to 160m. Between 160 and 180m I need at least 1-2kts to keep the sub floating, under 200m I need 4 and at 250 and bellow I need full power to level up. I consider this a very normal situation for a sub in the 38-45 time period. We are not talking about nuclear subs here and the color markers on the depth dial are for a reason.

[stoianm]

Hi tdw

I would like to have a version where i will be able to keep my depth at any speed if is posible

i am working now at a mod who will increase the bank acount - we can make trade


thanks!

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by stoianm

...

i am working now at a mod who will increase the bank acount ...

You got my attention on this, any eta?! :P

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by stoianm

Hi tdw

I would like to have a version where i will be able to keep my depth at any speed if is posible

i am working now at a mod who will increase the bank acount - we can make trade

thanks!

the two versions at post #1 do this. You can maintain depth at any speed, even 0 knots.

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

the two versions at post #1 do this. You can maintain depth at any speed, even 0 knots.

Thanks!

I misunderstood your post! i was thinking that i will be able to keep the dept only at 0 knots and because of that i did not used

cheers

[Sepp von Ch.]

I can confirm. I also have the same problem with this mod.

[oscar19681]

Well actually i dont have this mod but it happens in MO mega mod as well.

[Obelix]

Originally Posted by Magnum

Using stock settings I can dive and keep depth without using the engines down to 160m. Between 160 and 180m I need at least 1-2kts to keep the sub floating, under 200m I need 4 and at 250 and bellow I need full power to level up. I consider this a very normal situation for a sub in the 38-45 time period. We are not talking about nuclear subs here and the color markers on the depth dial are for a reason.

No movement can not keep the boat at a given depth, even on modern boats. The thing that is impossible to perfectly balance the boat for holding at the desired depth without motion. The boat will tend either to surface or the bottom. Therefore, to keep the depth of the boat had to be at least a minimum speed that seaplanes could keep a boat at depth.
Therefore, keeping the depth of no motion, I believe than the fantastic and the game it's always annoyed me. How, indeed, falling through to a depth at low speed.

[Vanilla]

Originally Posted by Obelix

No movement can not keep the boat at a given depth, even on modern boats. The thing that is impossible to perfectly balance the boat for holding at the desired depth without motion. The boat will tend either to surface or the bottom. Therefore, to keep the depth of the boat had to be at least a minimum speed that seaplanes could keep a boat at depth.
Therefore, keeping the depth of no motion, I believe than the fantastic and the game it's always annoyed me. How, indeed, falling through to a depth at low speed.

Now imagine yourself a real kaleun in a sub at 200m depth with a couple of DDs overhead. You are trying to be as quite as possible but notice that your submarine is constantly falling down to dangerous depth unless you keep 5 knots of speed. Do you think a kaleun would not 'politely ask' his LI to dump 50-100l of ballast so he can keep silent running? I would defenitely do rather than be forced to choose between dying of depth because of sinking or DCs because of giving out my position. LI and trim system are there for a reason.
The bouyancy is obviously tricky to control but not impossible. And there is more than enough boyancy in all the tanks to keep level or rise at any depth - remember that the tanks volume (read bouyancy) is almost constant (unless damaged or crushed) with changing depth. And 1-2 knots is pretty much enough for horizontal planes to be effective in precise depth control.

Given all that I would agree that it is realistic if we would see some vertical speed, but random and dependent on depth, speed and damage, i.e. -15m after 10 minutes and +17 minutes after another 10 minutes at 100m depth at dead stop. Not constant -1m/s sinking we see now in vanilla - I would kill my LI I guess, if I'd seen that in RL.
Moreover I would love to see some compressed air consumption when submerged to simulate trimming, ideally dependent on speed, depth and of course damage. And that would be awesome to see some radical drop down some 40-50m down with some generous compressed air dump when a tank is crushed to simulate neutral bouyancy disruption and consecutive stabilising efforts through ballast dumping.

[Obelix]

Originally Posted by Vanilla

Now imagine yourself a real kaleun in a sub at 200m depth with a couple of DDs overhead. You are trying to be as quite as possible but notice that your submarine is constantly falling down to dangerous depth unless you keep 5 knots of speed. Do you think a kaleun would not 'politely ask' his LI to dump 50-100l of ballast so he can keep silent running? I would defenitely do rather than be forced to choose between dying of depth because of sinking or DCs because of giving out my position. LI and trim system are there for a reason.
The bouyancy is obviously tricky to control but not impossible. And there is more than enough boyancy in all the tanks to keep level or rise at any depth - remember that the tanks volume (read bouyancy) is almost constant (unless damaged or crushed) with changing depth. And 1-2 knots is pretty much enough for horizontal planes to be effective in precise depth control.

Given all that I would agree that it is realistic if we would see some vertical speed, but random and dependent on depth, speed and damage, i.e. -15m after 10 minutes and +17 minutes after another 10 minutes at 100m depth at dead stop. Not constant -1m/s sinking we see now in vanilla - I would kill my LI I guess, if I'd seen that in RL.
Moreover I would love to see some compressed air consumption when submerged to simulate trimming, ideally dependent on speed, depth and of course damage. And that would be awesome to see some radical drop down some 40-50m down with some generous compressed air dump when a tank is crushed to simulate neutral bouyancy disruption and consecutive stabilising efforts through ballast dumping.

All true, but I talked about that at speed 0 knots to keep the boat at a given depth is not possible. Will be a constant yaw in depth. The boat begins to sink - pump water tends to surface - fill the ballast. And this game (blowing ballast-ballasting) is constant. Another thing that we have a speed of 1-2 knots, it should already allow us to control the depth of the minimum consumption of compressed air.

[Stormfly]

Originally Posted by Obelix

All true, but I talked about that at speed 0 knots to keep the boat at a given depth is not possible. Will be a constant yaw in depth. The boat begins to sink - pump water tends to surface - fill the ballast. And this game (blowing ballast-ballasting) is constant. Another thing that we have a speed of 1-2 knots, it should already allow us to control the depth of the minimum consumption of compressed air.

it would be good to know what force whas used to press water out of the boat using the regulation cells, also which maximum dept was allowed because pressforce have to be stronger then outside water pressure.