torpedo loadout

Zedi · 01-28-11, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hi there....
I even received messages from merchants that obviously had spotted me without me never seeing them. It was the other way round, and the way it is now this is ridiculous, even in 1945.

....

Is the one of the main reason why I dont use TDW UI.
UI should be about interface, nothing more.

stoianm · 01-28-11, 02:06 PM

Hi,

Now i made an ideea how to chose my torpedo loaudout.

Many thanks for all your posts!

Jaguar · 02-24-11, 12:13 PM

"A further factor was to select the right torpedo for the job, which became increasingly complicated as the war progressed. Thus, in the early days of the war each U-Boat´s load of torpedoes was a simple matter, consisting of either G7a or G7b, but in May 1943 BdU laid down that the load for a Type VIIC would be:

- Forward: four TI FaT I (G7a) plus six T III (G7e);
- Aft: two T III FaT II (G7e)

By April the following year this had changed to:

- Forward: three TV (G7es) (Zaunkonig) plus either five LuT or two FaT I plus three FaT II;
- Aft: two TV (G7es) (Zaunkonig) "

Source: U-Boats History Development and Equipment by David Miller

Catfish · 01-28-11, 04:09 PM

Hello,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum

Is the one of the main reason why I dont use TDW UI.
UI should be about interface, nothing more.

Hmm, to shut it off because it kills immersion is one thing, but if you have it on, you can clearly see what the sim or the AI in the sim "sees" !

It is an indicator what happens inside detection-wise

It is highly improbable to say at least, that a merchant sees you in fog, if you yourself do not see him. Now imagine what the destroyers "see" in SH5, in dense fog ...

Greetings,
Catfish

Trevally. · 01-28-11, 04:21 PM

I may be wrong here but,

I think that TDW could not adjust the IRAI mod by date. So we had to have impoved escorts and anti-uboat tactics from the start of the war or not at all.

For the message "u-boat spotted" - I think that your boat is not spotted. This was added by the script scanning a distance from your boat and detecting contacts. If contacts were found there was a %chance that they would send a message "spotted".
I have not yet read the note from patch 6.3.6 but I think there are options to reduce or even stop this from happening.

TheDarkWraith · 01-28-11, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally.

I may be wrong here but,

I think that TDW could not adjust the IRAI mod by date. So we had to have impoved escorts and anti-uboat tactics from the start of the war or not at all.

For the message "u-boat spotted" - I think that your boat is not spotted. This was added by the script scanning a distance from your boat and detecting contacts. If contacts were found there was a %chance that they would send a message "spotted".
I have not yet read the note from patch 6.3.6 but I think there are options to reduce or even stop this from happening.

if we could 'clone' a GR2 file and reassign all the IDs to new IDs we could solve this problem of uber destroyers and escorts at beginning of war. By cloning it then I could readjust all the sensors to dumb down the AI so they are more realistically modeled in the early years. Just haven't figured out how to change IDs in the GR2 file yet.

Catfish · 01-28-11, 06:06 PM

Hello TDW,

this was in no way meant to criticize the mod, indeed the uncertainty now given to the player is top notch, even if it's too hard yet, in '39.
Are different sensors/detection systems with developing capabilities modeled, in vanilla SH5 - and in your mod ?

Apart from the time the current situation is based on, like "Happy times", or not-so-happy-times late 1944 which is a diffrent problem, detection and sensor-wise :

Problem is like with sea state, weather, torpedoed ships the sim does not save a lot of other conditions and settings, so when you come back loading a saved game you may be in a raging storm, while having saved in perfectly calm seas.

So:

1. Could it be that the destroyer AI simply does not know which sea state it is in as well - i mean you saved in calm weather and reload into a storm - but the destroyers are still in their saved "calm seas state" mode, and can thus see you while you don't ?

2. Do the destroyers generally see worse in bad weather/storm/fog/night, or does it not influence the AI - or asked the other way round - is any detection dependent on different weather conditions ?

3. Would it be possible to disable radar in very early conditions on say 3 of 4 escorts

4. Is the radar blindness when closer than 1000 meters modelled in vanilla, or mod ?

Anyway i lke this very much !

Thanks and greeting,
Catfish

TheDarkWraith · 01-28-11, 06:12 PM

(taken from IRAI v0.29):

[Visual]
Detection time=2.0 ;[s] min detection time.
Sensitivity=1.0 ;(0..1) min detection threshold double detection time.
Fog factor=0.85 ;[>=0]
Light factor=1.25 ;[>=0]
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=50.0 ;[m2]
Enemy speed factor=8 ;[kt]
Min Signal Strength=0.1
Night Sensitivity Factor=0.3
Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=0

This is all the AI gets to work with. See how limited it is? There's not much we can do to affect it's behavior weather wise, sea state wise, etc. I have the waves factor, fog factor, and light factors set very high to 'dumb down' the AI as much as possible yet still give a challenge.

Catfish · 01-28-11, 06:19 PM

Hi TDW,

this is indeed limited

- works surprisingly well with this few..

But it at least seams as if - even if the sea state/fog/night etc. changed drastically afte ra reload, the AI will take it into account - so my one theory is false, sea state will be detected with changing conditions.

edit: you posted before me, ok - well enough compared to Vanilla SH5 !

Thanks, something to think about ..
Catfish

TheDarkWraith · 01-28-11, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

3. Would it be possible to disable radar in very early conditions on say 3 of 4 escorts

Anyway i lke this very much !

Thanks and greeting,
Catfish

If I could clone GR2 files and change the IDs (cause a clone needs new unique IDs) then via the ship's sns and eqp files we could make the AI change over time (years) thus modelling correctly the progress of allied radar/sonar/hydrophone. But until I can do that we are stuck with what we have.

TheDarkWraith · 01-28-11, 04:22 PM

the game does not make the current environment conditions available to scripts. Thus I have no way of knowing whether it's foggy, rainy, sunny, etc. The radio messages were added because people wanted them. I did the best I could do given what little is available to use from the game.

01-28-11, 04:21 PM	#5
Trevally. Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: AN1536 (Orkney) Posts: 5,451 Downloads: 166 Uploads: 28	I may be wrong here but, I think that TDW could not adjust the IRAI mod by date. So we had to have impoved escorts and anti-uboat tactics from the start of the war or not at all. For the message "u-boat spotted" - I think that your boat is not spotted. This was added by the script scanning a distance from your boat and detecting contacts. If contacts were found there was a %chance that they would send a message "spotted". I have not yet read the note from patch 6.3.6 but I think there are options to reduce or even stop this from happening. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Trevally Mods for SH5

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01-28-11, 02:06 PM	#2
stoianm Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 2,776 Downloads: 833 Uploads: 11	Hi, Now i made an ideea how to chose my torpedo loaudout. Many thanks for all your posts!

02-24-11, 12:13 PM	#3
Jaguar Officer Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: The Pampas Posts: 239 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	"A further factor was to select the right torpedo for the job, which became increasingly complicated as the war progressed. Thus, in the early days of the war each U-Boat´s load of torpedoes was a simple matter, consisting of either G7a or G7b, but in May 1943 BdU laid down that the load for a Type VIIC would be: - Forward: four TI FaT I (G7a) plus six T III (G7e); - Aft: two T III FaT II (G7e) By April the following year this had changed to: - Forward: three TV (G7es) (Zaunkonig) plus either five LuT or two FaT I plus three FaT II; - Aft: two TV (G7es) (Zaunkonig) " Source: U-Boats History Development and Equipment by David Miller

01-28-11, 06:06 PM	#7
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,800 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello TDW, this was in no way meant to criticize the mod, indeed the uncertainty now given to the player is top notch, even if it's too hard yet, in '39. Are different sensors/detection systems with developing capabilities modeled, in vanilla SH5 - and in your mod ? Apart from the time the current situation is based on, like "Happy times", or not-so-happy-times late 1944 which is a diffrent problem, detection and sensor-wise : Problem is like with sea state, weather, torpedoed ships the sim does not save a lot of other conditions and settings, so when you come back loading a saved game you may be in a raging storm, while having saved in perfectly calm seas. So: 1. Could it be that the destroyer AI simply does not know which sea state it is in as well - i mean you saved in calm weather and reload into a storm - but the destroyers are still in their saved "calm seas state" mode, and can thus see you while you don't ? 2. Do the destroyers generally see worse in bad weather/storm/fog/night, or does it not influence the AI - or asked the other way round - is any detection dependent on different weather conditions ? 3. Would it be possible to disable radar in very early conditions on say 3 of 4 escorts 4. Is the radar blindness when closer than 1000 meters modelled in vanilla, or mod ? Anyway i lke this very much ! Thanks and greeting, Catfish

01-28-11, 06:12 PM	#8
TheDarkWraith Black Magic Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,962 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 5	(taken from IRAI v0.29): [Visual] Detection time=2.0 ;[s] min detection time. Sensitivity=1.0 ;(0..1) min detection threshold double detection time. Fog factor=0.85 ;[>=0] Light factor=1.25 ;[>=0] Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0] Enemy surface factor=50.0 ;[m2] Enemy speed factor=8 ;[kt] Min Signal Strength=0.1 Night Sensitivity Factor=0.3 Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=0 This is all the AI gets to work with. See how limited it is? There's not much we can do to affect it's behavior weather wise, sea state wise, etc. I have the waves factor, fog factor, and light factors set very high to 'dumb down' the AI as much as possible yet still give a challenge.

01-28-11, 06:19 PM	#9
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,800 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hi TDW, this is indeed limited - works surprisingly well with this few.. But it at least seams as if - even if the sea state/fog/night etc. changed drastically afte ra reload, the AI will take it into account - so my one theory is false, sea state will be detected with changing conditions. edit: you posted before me, ok - well enough compared to Vanilla SH5 ! Thanks, something to think about .. Catfish

01-28-11, 04:22 PM	#11
TheDarkWraith Black Magic Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,962 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 5	the game does not make the current environment conditions available to scripts. Thus I have no way of knowing whether it's foggy, rainy, sunny, etc. The radio messages were added because people wanted them. I did the best I could do given what little is available to use from the game.