Virginia federal court rules Obamacare unconstitutional

[tater]

Ending them as they are.

People will never be denied care in emergencies, won't happen. Medicaid needs to exist mostly to cover that cost, not primary care. There are outfits doing primary care for $30 a visit. There is a market that can be filled (the benefit of primary care is overstated, IMO, 90-something % of what GPs see is self-limiting anyway).

As it is, medicare pays more now than anyone paying in could have reasonably expected. The drug beni (stupid Bush) needs to be eliminated 100%. No one receiving it now paid a penny in expecting it. 100% repeal of that. Medicaid is nothing more than charity, we can do to it what we like. We should remember it is CHARITY care. If you have a good year at work, you donate more to charity. If business is rough and you can barely make payroll... you stop giving large donations to charities. If our balance sheet (the USA) is in () then we cannot afford much charity.

[August]

Originally Posted by tater

Ending them as they are.

People will never be denied care in emergencies, won't happen. Medicaid needs to exist mostly to cover that cost, not primary care. There are outfits doing primary care for $30 a visit. There is a market that can be filled (the benefit of primary care is overstated, IMO, 90-something % of what GPs see is self-limiting anyway).

Don't say that it won't happen. If you're willing to let a poor person go without normal care it's not that far a stretch to someday prevent emergency care as well for the same reasons.

As it is, medicare pays more now than anyone paying in could have reasonably expected. The drug beni (stupid Bush) needs to be eliminated 100%. No one receiving it now paid a penny in expecting it. 100% repeal of that. Medicaid is nothing more than charity, we can do to it what we like. We should remember it is CHARITY care. If you have a good year at work, you donate more to charity. If business is rough and you can barely make payroll... you stop giving large donations to charities. If our balance sheet (the USA) is in () then we cannot afford much charity.

When I had a minor heart attack a few years ago it cost my insurance company over 70 THOUSAND dollars for a 20 minute stent implant procedure and a two day hospital stay for observation. Since then easily another 3-4 grand for various tests and follow up doctor visits. You're saying tough tuchus to all that if I didn't have insurance? If that's so I don't think i'd want to live in your America.

[Blood_splat]

[GoldenRivet]

yes, the health care industry can be non-profit.

the problem with that is simple... the government shouldnt be non-profit, the government should be operating within a balanced budget, when you keep piling trillions on trillions on trillions of dollars onto the heaping debt, eventually you revert to being a third world country.

As long as my medication is paid for in full, my surgery is paid for in full, my hospital stays are paid for in full and i get to make private personal decisions about my health care - i dont give a rats anus if the insurance company paying for it all makes a profit. i dont.

the most common reason someone does not have health insurance is because they work a job that does not provide it as a perk.

guess, what? while you are entitled to health care (and have always received it for free in the ER), you are not entitled to health insurance... its a service, that you buy, with your own money.

If a person desires insurance, they need to get the proper education in order to get the job that provides it... OR... they need to go out and purchase some form of insurance suitable to their lifestyle with their own money.

you shop for car insurance that is both affordable and also commensurate with your needs, why don't more people take the time to shop for health insurance the same way?

Im insured, i pay for that luxury with my own money, I have absolutely no intent to help pay for anyone elses insurance, especially when its paid via a forced subsidy through taxation by the federal government or else i have to face legal penalties.

thats ludicrous

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

the problem with that is simple... the government shouldnt be non-profit, the government should be operating within a balanced budget, when you keep piling trillions on trillions on trillions of dollars onto the heaping debt, eventually you revert to being a third world country.

Non-profit doesn't necessarily mean that they make a loss. Non-profit means exactly that: no profit. Nothing more.

Im insured, i pay for that luxury with my own money,

I wouldn't exactly call healthcare insurance a luxury. It saves lives. Everyone should have an equal chance to have medical treatment. If a rich man with an insurance gets some disease, his treatments get paid for and he lives. If a poor man without insurance gets a disease, he can't pay for it and he dies. Fair?

If you were talking about paying for another man's car, or TV, or house or cellphone or whatever, I couldn't agree more with you. Those things are luxury items. Healthcare isn't. Healthcare isn't something you can do without, healthcare is something you *need*.

I have absolutely no intent to help pay for anyone elses insurance, especially when its paid via a forced subsidy through taxation by the federal government or else i have to face legal penalties.

So why do you still pay to maintain the countless roads you'll never use? Why pay tax to maintain the fire brigade, while your house will probably never burn down?

Why pay tax at all?

[Aramike]

Whenever this comes up, all that anyone ever considers are talking points. Why not solutions?

ditch the mandate dems, and it looks like we have a deal...

That would be horrible. Forcing insurers to cover preexisting conditions without requiring people to carry coverage would be a disaster to the industry. Why then would anyone carry coverage? Insurers make money from HEALTHY people.

In my opinion, there's no reason we can't keep our current, effective system (save for the financing) while addressing the potential disasterous financial pitfalls that could occur in emergencies. Why not simply have the feds cover any annual expenditures over a certain amount? Make it high enough so that people don't clog the system with colds while low enough to allow production citizens a safety net in case of emergency.

[August]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Whenever this comes up, all that anyone ever considers are talking points. Why not solutions?That would be horrible. Forcing insurers to cover preexisting conditions without requiring people to carry coverage would be a disaster to the industry. Why then would anyone carry coverage? Insurers make money from HEALTHY people.

In my opinion, there's no reason we can't keep our current, effective system (save for the financing) while addressing the potential disasterous financial pitfalls that could occur in emergencies. Why not simply have the feds cover any annual expenditures over a certain amount? Make it high enough so that people don't clog the system with colds while low enough to allow production citizens a safety net in case of emergency.

Well I like that idea Mike!

[August]

Originally Posted by Blood_splat

Bill Mayer is a partisan idiot. If he told me the sky was blue i'd doubt him.

[Growler]

Originally Posted by August

When I had a minor heart attack a few years ago it cost my insurance company over 70 THOUSAND dollars for a 20 minute stent implant procedure and a two day hospital stay for observation. Since then easily another 3-4 grand for various tests and follow up doctor visits. You're saying tough tuchus to all that if I didn't have insurance? If that's so I don't think i'd want to live in your America.

Amen, trooper.

Just before she passed, I found two statements from the hospital that was treating my mom for leukemia: One week's stay, with treatment: $139,000. The next week's stay: $148,000. That was only two weeks across her sixth month illness. Other statements, including the initial treatment period when she was first diagnosed, were comparable.

Good thing our health care system as it exists today isn't broken. [/sarcasm]

The fundamental flaw with ANY health care plan legislation is that it's trying to fix a currently unrecoverable system. Legislation can't fix a system that is rife with exploitation, experimentation, and frivolous or spiteful lawsuits.

[mookiemookie]

Legal scholars are already picking apart the judge's ruling:

The key portion of the ruling reads:

"If a person's decision not to purchase health insurance at a particular point in time does not constitute the type of economic activity subject to regulation under the Commerce Clause, then logically an attempt to enforce such provision under the Necessary and Proper Clause is equally offensive to the Constitution."

Kerr notes that this is all wrong. The Necessary and Proper Clause allows Congress to take steps beyond those listed in the Constitution to achieve its Constitutional ends, including the regulation of interstate commerce. Hudson's argument wipes a key part of the Constitution out of existence. Kerr says Hudson "rendered [it] a nullity."

I think that's a very valid point that's being raised.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...are-ruling.php

[GoldenRivet]

I have to wonder why some folks push SO hard to have the government control every solitary detail of their private lives.

i cant understand it.

[August]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I have to wonder why some folks push SO hard to have the government control every solitary detail of their private lives.

i cant understand it.

Did the government ever deliberately sell people fake medicine? Did the government ever use paperclips instead of proper dental posts?

I'm no great supporter of government run health care but medical treatment for profit is nothing more than a perpetual rip off.

[GoldenRivet]

Different Strokes to Different Folks i guess.

I wonder what else should be not for profit?

I feel bad for those docs and nurses now.

there should be financial profit in digging a hard boiled egg out of a 480 lbs woman's anus.

(just one thing on the list of things i have known friends and family to have to do while working in the med field)