Virginia federal court rules Obamacare unconstitutional

Platapus · 12-13-10, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

It would seem that a Virginia Federal Court ruled 'Obamacare' unconstitutional.

Not really. Only one provision was judged to be unconstitutional.

It will go before the supreme court and will have a pretty good chance of being upheld (being unconstitutional).

This was an area that the Democrats went into when they shouldn't have.

We really don't want the precedent to be set that would allow the federal government to mandate the purchase of a commercial product/service.

Takeda Shingen · 12-13-10, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Not really. Only one provision was judged to be unconstitutional.

It will go before the supreme court and will have a pretty good chance of being upheld (being unconstitutional).

This was an area that the Democrats went into when they shouldn't have.

We really don't want the precedent to be set that would allow the federal government to mandate the purchase of a commercial product/service.

Hey, I was given no link or information other than the title and an order to discuss, so I did my best with what I had available.

tater · 12-13-10, 07:46 PM

Of course minus the mandate, there is nothing there except massive unintended consequences (which the bill was already full of).

The whole point of forcing people to buy is to increase the pool of payees that are unlikely to use care (young adults—a patient population that is very well served with nothing but inexpensive catastrophic care coverage for trauma).

No mandate, plus dumb things like no denial or even raised rates for preexisting conditions means bankruptcy for insurance. Insurance margins (health insurance, anyway, I think they do well on life insurance) are actually not high. Total insurance profit is 1-2% of total healthcare cost, and ~50% of the total is not "insured, so that makes insurance profit 2-4%. With no mandate, they don't have loads of healthy people forced to pay premiums, but they still have to insure very bad risks at the same rate as the healthy. That's like charging someone the exact same premium for a Smart Car as a Bugatti Veyron.

The mandate was always a really bad idea. It wasn't just dems in favor of mandates, BTW, even though they own this entire bill. Some R plans that never left committee also had mandates as I recall. It's terrible law, IMO. The government could by the same precedent require people to buy X pounds of veggies per week, for example. No difference at all.

yubba · 12-13-10, 08:48 PM

All right, one for the good guys.

gimpy117 · 12-13-10, 09:39 PM

Of course a court in VIRGINIA would rule it "unconstitutional" ironically it's basically the republicans bill with he whole mandate part

tater · 12-13-10, 09:42 PM

It's a federal judge.

This bill has no "republican" parts at all, the dems own it, even if the reps had similar requirements in other bills. they had supermajority, it was 100% their choice what was in, and they took no input at all from the other side.

The government should GTF out of healthcare, frankly. yes, that means I think they should dump medicare and medicaid. The former is going to bankrupt the country unless dumped. Period.

papa_smurf · 12-14-10, 12:21 PM

Its so good to see American democracy in action

Armistead · 12-14-10, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

It's a federal judge.

This bill has no "republican" parts at all, the dems own it, even if the reps had similar requirements in other bills. they had supermajority, it was 100% their choice what was in, and they took no input at all from the other side.

The government should GTF out of healthcare, frankly. yes, that means I think they should dump medicare and medicaid. The former is going to bankrupt the country unless dumped. Period.

Why not just kill the few million that would die without those programs and at least stop the suffering...Hope it's not someone you love...

Sailor Steve · 12-14-10, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Hey, I was given no link or information other than the title and an order to discuss, so I did my best with what I had available.

I noticed that, and thought you did quite well indeed.

CaptainHaplo · 12-14-10, 04:26 PM

The ruling only discards and negates the mandate. However, without the mandate, the rest of the bill cannot be funded. Literally, this is the foundation upon which the rest is crafted. Without it, its like a house built with no foundation. It will fall apart.

Ultimately it does need to go before the Supreme Court. The key is how long it will take. Parts of the law are already in force, other parts won't kick in until later - up until 2014. So the longer pieces get put into place, the worse it is for us all.....

12-13-10, 09:39 PM	#5
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	Of course a court in VIRGINIA would rule it "unconstitutional" ironically it's basically the republicans bill with he whole mandate part __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army

12-14-10, 12:21 PM	#7
papa_smurf Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2,851 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Its so good to see American democracy in action __________________

12-14-10, 04:26 PM	#10
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	The ruling only discards and negates the mandate. However, without the mandate, the rest of the bill cannot be funded. Literally, this is the foundation upon which the rest is crafted. Without it, its like a house built with no foundation. It will fall apart. Ultimately it does need to go before the Supreme Court. The key is how long it will take. Parts of the law are already in force, other parts won't kick in until later - up until 2014. So the longer pieces get put into place, the worse it is for us all..... __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

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12-13-10, 07:46 PM	#3
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Of course minus the mandate, there is nothing there except massive unintended consequences (which the bill was already full of). The whole point of forcing people to buy is to increase the pool of payees that are unlikely to use care (young adults—a patient population that is very well served with nothing but inexpensive catastrophic care coverage for trauma). No mandate, plus dumb things like no denial or even raised rates for preexisting conditions means bankruptcy for insurance. Insurance margins (health insurance, anyway, I think they do well on life insurance) are actually not high. Total insurance profit is 1-2% of total healthcare cost, and ~50% of the total is not "insured, so that makes insurance profit 2-4%. With no mandate, they don't have loads of healthy people forced to pay premiums, but they still have to insure very bad risks at the same rate as the healthy. That's like charging someone the exact same premium for a Smart Car as a Bugatti Veyron. The mandate was always a really bad idea. It wasn't just dems in favor of mandates, BTW, even though they own this entire bill. Some R plans that never left committee also had mandates as I recall. It's terrible law, IMO. The government could by the same precedent require people to buy X pounds of veggies per week, for example. No difference at all.

12-13-10, 08:48 PM	#4
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	All right, one for the good guys.

12-13-10, 09:42 PM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	It's a federal judge. This bill has no "republican" parts at all, the dems own it, even if the reps had similar requirements in other bills. they had supermajority, it was 100% their choice what was in, and they took no input at all from the other side. The government should GTF out of healthcare, frankly. yes, that means I think they should dump medicare and medicaid. The former is going to bankrupt the country unless dumped. Period.