First photo of Chinese F-22

[Freiwillige]

Sooo who sold them the blueprints? It is an F-22 down to the rivet!!!

So espionage or treason is the culprit. Or a darn good photoshop job.

[Skybird]

As long as America does not attack China or most vital Chinese interests, any future war will be fought with money and economics. Or better: it already is.

That plane will not need "20-30 years" for maiden flight. Underestimating opponents seems to be a typical American habit, eh? The thing will perform much better than anyone in the West expected, and will be produced in sufficient quantities for territorial defence. Russia may be hampered by limited budgets and thus builds only small quantities of its latest tank or interceptor - with the Chinese, budget limitations are a bit different. They will spend the money that is needed to give them what they want - but at the same time they will prevent to financially ov erstretch themselves. Quite reasonable. Why should we expect the Chinese to work against their own interest?

The Chinese continue to learn, too, you know - and especially in quality of software engineering, comp0uters and electronics they have closed the gap. Thanks to our idiotic business relations with them, trading them the basic knowhow on which now they have started to improve all by themselves. Short-sighted profit interests and unbelievable naivety on how modernisation of the economy would change human rights have lost us the race in the long run. We still run on, yes, what else should we do. But we are already defeated.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That plane will not need "20-30 years" for maiden flight. Underestimating opponents seems to be a typical American habit, eh?

I wasn't basing my time estimate on this one single plane. But rather, when resources start dwindling and we find ourselves in direct competition with them over what resources remain. China will demand them, as will the US, and i don't see neither bending to the will of the other when we reach that point.

(edit: yes, insert obligatory Fallout reference here. lol )

[Skybird]

Of course it is over resources. As Deng Xiao Ping said: "The Mideast has oil, China has rare earths". That the West, namely America as formner majhor miner and distributor of rare earths, has shut down its former capacity to mine for these elements in other nations than China when the Chinese started to enter the market and dump prices (rare earths are anything but rare), does not signal great intelligence. The Americans now try to breathe new life into thewir former company that was running such mines in Bolivia and Africa, but until that attempt'S capacity will make a serious difference to global markets, it is estimated another 12-15 years will come and go, and even then fact remains that while there are other reservoirs of rare earths on the globe, Chiona seem to own the biggest one.

China has spend the past 25 years to buy the loyalty and sympathy of minor countries, MANY minor countries in the third world, by giving them lucrtaiuce business contracts and strengthening trade relations at good conditions, also spening a lot of financial aid. It's bribery by economics. Wetsern companies and American companies on the othe rhand have alienated many third world nations by the ruthless exploitation of their resources and catching the cream.

Ameria can trigger and support coup here and there, occasionally. But if you think they will attack China by military means, you are possibly wrong. And if the dispouted resource fields in the South Chinese Sea gets battled over, I see China already now in the superior military position.

This issue of competing for resources will not be decided the traditional American way (hidden violence, or open war), but the Chinese way: financial and economical conspiracies. They prepared for that by accepting America to fall into that deep dependence from China'S good will regarding certain fincial issues.

This is not so much a military issue, like the US uses to think. It is a thing of economic ties, and financial options.

The greatest idiots here - are the Europeans. They are neither militzarily strong like the US, nor economically and financially strong like the Chinese. The Euro as well as the state bancruptcy caused by overboarding social systems are no shiny examples that will be followed by the rest of the world - like the EU claims -, but is a sounding warning to everybody how NOT to run things. That's why both America and China do not ask them anymore.

I just wish the Chinese would not repeat all those environmental mistakes we have made in the West. If there is one thing they really could learn from us, then: not to repeat these mistakes.

[TLAM Strike]

Meanwhile in Luoyang, China...

[krashkart]

They own our networks.

[Schroeder]

@F-117mockup

Their stealth technology must be way beyond ours as I don't see anything even remotely resembling a F117 there.

[krashkart]

It's there alright. Look a little closer.

[Matador.es]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Meanwhile in Luoyang, China...

How insane? Its just 1 km from the nearest stadium? Right into town between small warehouses.... this must be a cardboard version.... for the local carneval

You are good informed though

[TLAM Strike]

well it has a name:
Engineering Project 718 Prototype 01


The Chinese, Russian and US Stealth Fighters...

[XabbaRus]

Of the three the chinese design is least LO.

There is a guy called gaus1000 or something and he posts on a few forums and I've learned to listen to what he says as he is in the industry and is reasonable in his posts.

However you know the F-22 copy, not the black one but that one without the nose. I haven't read anyone on any other forums discuss or mention that other F-22 copy.

[Marcantilan]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I wasn't basing my time estimate on this one single plane. But rather, when resources start dwindling and we find ourselves in direct competition with them over what resources remain. China will demand them, as will the US, and i don't see neither bending to the will of the other when we reach that point.

(edit: yes, insert obligatory Fallout reference here. lol )

Interesting, my postgraduate thesis was based on that asumption.

But, analyzing various scenarios, my conclusion was that a direct confrontation between China & US is not likely going to happen in the near future. In my work, the only scenario where military action could happen is in the Spratly Islands / South China Sea.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

Sooo who sold them the blueprints? It is an F-22 down to the rivet!!!

So espionage or treason is the culprit. Or a darn good photoshop job.

China doesn't buy blueprints, they liberate them from "secure" computers.

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by krashkart

China doesn't buy blueprints, they liberate them from "secure" computers.

Or a trade off for forgiving debt? Blueprints for the F-22 = $100 Billion removed from your debt

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

Sooo who sold them the blueprints? It is an F-22 down to the rivet!!!

So espionage or treason is the culprit. Or a darn good photoshop job.

Remember the B-29 Russia copied after WWII down to the last rivet due to having got their hands on one?

Did they ever find that F-22 that supposedly crashed in Alaska lol