German police arrest 22 in neo-Nazi internet raid

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by CCIP

and India:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8660064.stm

I think its because that in developing nations politically active teens think that their country is treated unfairly by more powerful nations. Therefore, they idolize Hitlar

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

I think its because that in developing nations politically active teens think that their country is treated unfairly by more powerful nations. Therefore, they idolize Hitlar

In fairness, I think they're less Neo-Nazism as such and more just silly cargo cult Nazism that doesn't understand anything.

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by CCIP

In fairness, I think they're less Neo-Nazism as such and more just silly cargo cult Nazism that doesn't understand anything.

That is probably true
but you know, rising housing prices, rising crime, people in those places are always looking to expand their "living space"

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by CCIP

In fairness, I think they're less Neo-Nazism as such and more just silly cargo cult Nazism that doesn't understand anything.

It's entirely possible they're just looking for Kyle.

I understand he's about *this* tall.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by CCIP

In fairness, I think they're less Neo-Nazism as such and more just silly cargo cult Nazism that doesn't understand anything.

Most probably but in those dark savage days of WWII many people were forced to make some stark choices, the potential consequences of each decision being hard for any of us here and especially 'cargo cult' types to truly understand not having lived it.

Let us hope we are never tested in such a way in the future.

[joea]

Excellent post Skybird.

Yes I read all of it.

[Gerald]

From my standpoint, I think, what the police did investigate and are within their rights, one that is a pretty big thing to adm.and that takes resources away from more countries and people so it seems to be successful so long, but one an ongoing investigation is being carried

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by joea

Excellent post Skybird.

I second that.

Yes I read all of it.

Yeah, amazing, isn't it

Skybird wrote:
Tater,

the father of my father and his two brothers were drafted and taken away from their families, they all married young, had already families and children. They had to have these on their minds, too. My grandfather survived Russia, with one eye, one leg and one loung, his two brothers did not return.

There is a good phrase: "You brought this to yourself". If you choosing a nationalistic group to run your country, then you must face the consequences, no more and no less. Nationalism means unnecessary pride which result a person to believe that he is better that other just because his a German (in your case) and this turn into violent act which leads to war. And war leads to death and suffer. So don`t ask for my pity, please. Enjoy the snow ...ops here goes the unlucky slave trader

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by Dimitrius07

There is a good phrase: "You brought this to yourself". If you choosing a nationalistic group to run your country, then you must face the consequences, no more and no less. Nationalism means unnecessary pride which result a person to believe that he is better that other just because his a German (in your case) and this turn into violent act which leads to war. And war leads to death and suffer. So don`t ask for my pity, please. Enjoy the snow ...ops here goes the unlucky slave trader

and here goes another super long flame war

[tater]

Civilians in the US knew about the death camps, and pressured FDR to bomb them. If any US civilians knew, then virtually all german civilians had to know.

Since any germans that lived through the war had a vested interest in saying they did not know about atrocities after the war, their answers must be assumed to be self-serving unless proved otherwise. I've heard interviews with those that say that they did know, so what was special about those civilians? Nothing. They knew cause everyone knew. I used to have lunch sometimes with a retired history prof who was in the WM on the Eastern Front (a junior officer, he was a russian language student and was used for that skill), he told me everyone knew what was going on, but that it was a different time, and that was the way everyone thought.

My point was that I didn't care if they were officially members or not. It doesn't matter, actions speak louder than words or signatures on party cards. If you fought to prolong the Reich, you were culpable in prolonging the Reich, period.

My observation about being pleased at the summary execution in SPR won't change. These are guys who are fighting for continued genocide. That IS what they are fighting for, just like the Confederates in the US Civil War were fighting so human beings could be property. Were they all thinking about that when they fought? No, of course not. Doesn't matter, that IS what they fought for, like it or not—heck, even if they didn't know that was what they fought for, it was what they fought for.

Faced with the D-Day invasion force, they had zero chance of winning the day. Zero. Surrender would have been entirely honorable in the face of that force without firing a shot. Instead, they killed countless boys (from damn far away) who were there to STOP genocide. Were they thinking about THAT? Nope, but that is none the less what they were fighting for. At that point, I have virtually no sympathy for the defenders. I agree with Patton when he told his junior officers not to accept German surrenders inside 200 yards—the time for the bad guys to surrender is before they needlessly kill our guys (needless since they're going to be surrendering anyway—all that German killing was just "because").

When you look at something on topic for SS, u-boats, then it's clearer. Any that didn't support the war could simply have defected. They would be assumed lost (since most boats WERE lost). Every single death they caused once the US was in was needless (and before that, malicious, assuming they thought they could win). IN fact, their fighting prolonged the war, and hence caused even more deaths (Allied, Axis, and civilian).

Bottom line is that without the consent of the populace, the Nazis would have been overthrown. The Soviets killed more than they did, and THEY were overthrown, after all.

[Platapus]

You have an interesting interpretation of history. Thanks for sharing it.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by tater

These are guys who are fighting for continued genocide. That IS what they are fighting for, just like the Confederates in the US Civil War were fighting so human beings could be property. Were they all thinking about that when they fought? No, of course not. Doesn't matter, that IS what they fought for, like it or not—heck, even if they didn't know that was what they fought for, it was what they fought for.

It's not what they fought for. They all had very different reasons to fight. To continue with your civil war analogy, some soldiers may indeed have fought to keep slavery. Others fought to defend their "fatherland" against the north. Others fought to defend their families and beloved ones. Others may have fought simply for the money or the thrill. And many others fought simply because they were conscripted.

You say that fighting for a country would automatically mean fighting for its government. That would be the same as saying that all patriots in the US army are fighting for Obama.
You're saying that German soldiers should have defected/surrendered if they were against the Nazis. That would be the same as saying all US soldiers who are against Obama should defect/surrender.