Astute Subamarine unbeatable?

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by crocodile

OK so perhaps it's not so unbeatable due to possible error and crew mistakes.... but considering that they won't give a 1.4 billion sub to a green crew, with equivalent crews can a another Sub stand a chance against this one?

For SSNs..

Well it would be a heck of a fight between an Astute and a Virgina. But I would say the Virgina has the edge because its more versatile and more mature (the Virginas are up to Block II with Block III being designed).

The Russian Yasen class while "new" is a quite old design (1993) and I would say the Astute has an edge over her.

The French Amethyste is quite old and lightly armed anyways except as an ambush weapon (the French boats are quiet due to their natural circulation reactor) the Astute has the edge easily.

The PLAN's Type 093, no chance against an Astute.

For SSKs there are a few there that would be a challenge. The Japanese Soryu, the German Type 212 and 214s, the French/Spanish Scorpene/S-80 class. The Swedish Gotland, maybe the Russian Lada and Chinese Yuan.

The Japanese and German subs would be the closest match I think since they are very new and AIP equipped.

[FIREWALL]

The bottom of the ocean is littered with Unbeatables.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

The bottom of the ocean is littered with Unbeatables.

Not to mention 'Unsinkables'

[crocodile]

But if what they say it's true i.e. that this sub under normal circumstances is as noisy as a baby dolphin or just a bit more, and that at the moment the other navies (especially the ones who potentially can be hostile to the United Kingdom) at the moment and in the near future don't have sensor that can detect it, the what you can do attack him or to prevent being engaged by him?

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by crocodile

But if what they say it's true i.e. that this sub under normal circumstances is as noisy as a baby dolphin or just a bit more, and that at the moment the other navies (especially the ones who potentially can be hostile to the United Kingdom) at the moment and in the near future don't have sensor that can detect it, the what you can do attack him or to prevent being engaged by him?

Couple methods.

Area Denial. Mine the sealanes they are likely to use with CAPTOR type mines and nail her before she becomes a threat, or it denys her transit. The Russian PKM-2 or Chinese EM-52 mines would be suitable for this.

Torpedo bait. Send a bunch of old diesel clunkers (like Foxtrots or Mings) out followed by some AIP hunter killers (like Amurs) and wait for the Astute to strike and use the TIW bearings as an aim point. Don't think that this is a gamey tactic from DW or SC, its been hinted that the PLAN plans to do that with their old subs.

Gangbang. Send three or four nuc boats out and just overwhelm the Astute and accept the loss of one or two of your subs.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Not to mention 'Unsinkables'

That's a very "ASTUTE" point you make there matey.

[MaddogK]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

For SSNs..

Well it would be a heck of a fight between an Astute and a Virgina. But I would say the Virgina has the edge because its more versatile and more mature (the Virginas are up to Block II with Block III being designed).

The Russian Yasen class while "new" is a quite old design (1993) and I would say the Astute has an edge over her.

The French Amethyste is quite old and lightly armed anyways except as an ambush weapon (the French boats are quiet due to their natural circulation reactor) the Astute has the edge easily.

The PLAN's Type 093, no chance against an Astute.

For SSKs there are a few there that would be a challenge. The Japanese Soryu, the German Type 212 and 214s, the French/Spanish Scorpene/S-80 class. The Swedish Gotland, maybe the Russian Lada and Chinese Yuan.

The Japanese and German subs would be the closest match I think since they are very new and AIP equipped.

Would still take a Seawolf over anything in the water.

[ETR3(SS)]

Why is that if I may ask?

[MaddogK]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Why is that if I may ask?

What ? You mean this :
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...hip/ssn-21.htm

[ETR3(SS)]

Yes that. Why out of curiosity?

[MaddogK]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Yes that. Why out of curiosity?

Sorry, thought it would be self explanatory:

The Seawolf has the highest tactical speed of any US submarine. Much much of the design effort was focused on noise reduction, and it is expected that the fully coated boat will restore the level of acoustic advantage which the US Navy enjoyed for the last three decades. The Seawolf's propulsion system makes it ten times more quiet over its full range of operating speeds than the Improved-688 class and 70 times more quiet than the initial generation of Los Angeles 688-class submarines. The Seawolf's quieter propulsion system will also enable it to have twice the tactical speed as the I-688. Tactical speed is the speed at which a submarine is still quiet enough to remain undetected while tracking enemy submarines effectively. Overall, the Seawolf's propulsion system represents a 75-percent improvement over the I-688's -- the Seawolf can operate 75 percent faster before being detected. It is said that SEAWOLF is quieter at its tactical speed of 25 knots than a LOS ANGELES-class submarine at pierside.

This is ONLY whats allowed to be published, and my guess 50% (or less) of it's true capability. As I personally have RW experience tracking a 688 (at least we think it was) I can only imagine the capabilities of a Seawolf in the right hands, and how hard it would be to find.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by MaddogK

...and how hard it would be to find.

Not that hard, look at the pier in Groton. The Seawolf was referred to as the Pierwolf and Building 21 a lot when I was in Groton at Sub School.