America on its way down. Is it?

[Tchocky]

I think the author is confusing the effects of a housing/lending catastrophe with intense sociological decline.
What happens when you have millions of junk mortgages going bust? Millions of houses empty in Heartland USA. It's a visceral and highly potent image of economic mismanagement, giving stories of families living in expensive cars. What it is not is a profound new weakness in American society. The problems in the US economy are due to a highly specific set of causal factors, almost none of which are particular to the US, and has consequences which are also shared by other developed nations. America's universities are still world-renowned (if not ideally accessible - but this is probably why), it's companies employ millions abroad, it's military is still potent.

Also, pivoting a paragraph on data from the New York post and a quote from Arianna Huffington? That wouldn't get much credibility here at SUBSIM

[Konovalov]

No one stays on top for ever. Anyway I'm off for a holiday to the US late next month to spend my hard earned tourist pounds.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

No one stays on top for ever.

True words. And the ones who make that their prime concern are the ones most likely to precipitate the fall.

Anyway I'm off for a holiday to the US late next month to spend my hard earned tourist pounds.

Enjoy your visit.

Originally Posted by August

As I said, if we had listened to the doubters our country would have fallen apart hundreds of years ago.

What they (and a lot of us as well) don't realize is that, after all this time, The American Experiment is still just that. We're still learning as we go, and that's one lesson that's too easily forgotten, and never should be.

[heartc]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

What they (and a lot of us as well) don't realize is that, after all this time, The American Experiment is still just that. We're still learning as we go, and that's one lesson that's too easily forgotten, and never should be.

And I think it's the God damn best experiment in the world, ever.
Maybe this has to do with the nature of freedom - as the saying goes: The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Maybe it is a job that can never be declared "finished". Because it is a constant, re-occurring challenge / experiment.

And look at just this thread for example: On the one hand, walls of text, explaining how America cannot really work, or cannot really function, or must have a doubtful future, or will fail tomorrow - and on the other hand, just simple common sense, showing how it does work *anyway*. From one day to the next. Step by step. And for a few hundred years by now.

Maybe this is really the point: If it would have been tried to be thought through from the beginning to the end - with all the pessimism that history would demand - for it to be NOT an experiment, it might have been declared impossible, and might have never been started. But by NOT kaput-thinking it, and instead by just living from one day to the next - this experiment *does* work. One step after another - no big dogmas, no Führer, just normal people with common sense, trying to live free.

Again: Best experiment in the world. Don't let it be strangled into dogmatic cages. That would be its downfall.



And btw. I'm not an American and thus not too familiar with domestic politics. But I find this guy pretty intriguing and I wanted to bring up this topic since a while now, to maybe get some opinions from the American audience here:



He claims himself an independent. And I find his views rather interesting and authentic. He makes an "original American" impression on me, or what I understand of America. Like some modern Thomas Jefferson guy or something. Or he might just be a good actor. But which politician isn't.

You see, for the last 10 years or so, I found myself mostly siding with the "conservatives", i.e. Republican side of American politics. But looking at it now, this was mostly motivated by the rampant Anti-Americanism in my country, which was totally irrational for the most part. And since the US president was Republican, I ended up defending Republican view points in my quest to relate American foreign policy etc. to my people, who were mostly on a witch hunt to feel better about themselves and our past (i.e. "Ha ha, look, now America got its own little Hitler with Bush Jr., so we're not so bad after all, are we? And before, Clinton had that slut in his office, ha ha! And Reagan wanted to start WW III, ha ha!"), instead of rationally debating the issues.

But looking at it in retrospective, there are some things which I would never agree to, either, if I were an American, like the infringements on citizen rights by the Patriot Act for example.
I know Jesse Ventura is a bit extreme in some of his views, and he got that conspiracy show running - but I think he is a good example of how American politics is NOT necessarily just a two party stalemate, and he has some good points indeed. Foremost, he calls out the Republicans on what he sees as treason to the American ideals, while *not* sounding like a traitor himself at the same time, like some Democrats do. For example, he's anti-torture (and anti word games in this context), but pro gun ownership, for the original reason of the citizenship protecting itself against tyranny. Very good. I often wonder if the Gestapo / SS / SA had run around as they did if every Joe and his uncle would have had a gun handy.

Anyway, I'll keep an eye on this man. Maybe he's going to run for 2012.

[August]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

No one stays on top for ever. Anyway I'm off for a holiday to the US late next month to spend my hard earned tourist pounds.

Would this be the annual Subsim meet perchance?

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by August

Would this be the annual Subsim meet perchance?

I wish but unfortunately not. I'm treating the Mrs to a weeks holiday over there. Hopefully I can get to a subsim meet because they look like a great thing to do.