Obama salutes George Bush's promised end of US combat

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

It is QUITE hard to work to the bone sitting in a pilots seat.

As someone who has shoveling sh*t AND dodging thunderstorms in an ice loaded airplane at FL250 then flying an ILS approach to minimums after 8 hours of flying spread out over a 14 hour duty day both on my resume... i respectfully disagree.

[NeonSamurai]

Knock it off with the ast*rix words please, as that goes against the rules here.

Originally Posted by Subsim Rules

Please use language that you would use around your mother. No vulgarities, obscenities, hate speech, or foul language. Do not use *******ing w*rds with aster*cks, that's the same thing as vulgar languge. Express yourself with respect to others.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq...._item_language

[antikristuseke]

If I used the kind of language I use around my mother here, I would be banned in 3 minutes. But then again, I am one of those weird people who considers obscenities to be acceptable in everyday conversation depending on the context as the words themselves are not offensive, only by what is ment by them is.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

If I used the kind of language I use around my mother here, I would be banned in 3 minutes. But then again, I am one of those weird people who considers obscenities to be acceptable in everyday conversation depending on the context as the words themselves are not offensive, only by what is ment by them is.

Very true, but of course the rules are there for a reason. We try to keep this in tone with 'Polite Society', and that includes not using language that would offend anybody.

Side A: It's only words. Why are you offended?

Side B: If it's only words why do need to use them?

[antikristuseke]

Side A: To stress a point or sufficiently express disapproval or approval to the situation described.

But I understand what you are saying, and for the most part agree. But since this isn't my house, will try my best to abide by the rules.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq...._item_language

thats an easy one to forget.

for me its like saying "no smilies" haha

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

As someone who has shoveling sh*t AND dodging thunderstorms in an ice loaded airplane at FL250 then flying an ILS approach to minimums after 8 hours of flying spread out over a 14 hour duty day both on my resume... i respectfully disagree.

But clearly the market is setting the salaries at the level the market can handle. I thought that was what you liked?

Is the government, somehow, mandating low salaries for regional pilots?

I know this is your industry and, of course, you think it should have a large salary. I think analysts like me should earn $250,000 per year. But guess what? The market sets my salary the same as it sets the salaries of most people.

If it were up to me, I would wave my magic wand and pay every airline pilot $100K+ for their job is skilled and requires a lot of experience to keep people safe. But I don't have a magic wand, all I have is a (almost) free market which sets your and my salaries.

We often think we are worth much more than our bosses do.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Platapus

But clearly the market is setting the salaries at the level the market can handle.

If thats the case explain the dozens of million+ dollar bonuses and salaries to mid level managers.

I blame low regional pilot salaries primarily on three things

1. Large aviation universities are selling high school kids the idea that you will graduate and immediately get a job at FedEx or American Airlines earning $150K anually

2. High school kids are buying that nonsense in bulk and the 22 and 23 year old graduates of said programs are willing to work for whatever bread they can get to pay off the $180,000 school loans.

3. Airlines, specifically regional level airlines know both 1 and 2 above and dictate the terms of pay accordingly thats why you have some airline workers making hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars... and others making less than a typical garbage collector.

Originally Posted by Platapus

I thought that was what you liked?

you got this impression from where exactly? is it because im not an Obamaphile socialist?

Originally Posted by Platapus

Is the government, somehow, mandating low salaries for regional pilots?

actually recent legislation sought to increase hiring minimums and thus also increase salaries.

Originally Posted by Platapus

I know this is your industry and, of course, you think it should have a large salary.

To the contrary, i think a pilot should be reasonably expected to not have to be on food stamps (as MANY are)

I think a fair opening salary for a 2nd year first officer would be approximately $35,000 with a cap of about $50K at 10 years seniority... thats not an unrealistic pie in the sky number, and it is substantially better than the $20,000 they are making to start and the current $35K give or take as a cap.

Originally Posted by Platapus

If it were up to me, I would wave my magic wand and pay every airline pilot $100K+ for their job is skilled and requires a lot of experience to keep people safe. But I don't have a magic wand, all I have is a (almost) free market which sets your and my salaries.

thanks, I also think the free market has a lot to do with the setting of wages... however, i think it also has a lot to do with the overall climate behind the scenes of a specific industry - as in this case it does... heavily.

Originally Posted by Platapus

We often think we are worth much more than our bosses do.

depends on the boss... i have had a few who have told me verbally of my worth to a specific company and who have desired to pay me more but couldnt etc.

what you have said here is true of most any profession though

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

If thats the case explain the dozens of million+ dollar bonuses and salaries to mid level managers.

Just a guess, but I think it is due to the people who have the authority in the corporation to set salaries and bonuses saying so? It is a corporate decision who get's paid what. And this is probably based on the supply of pilots, the demand for the services, and how can the corporation make the biggest profit for its shareholders.

Being "fair" or "nice" to the employees ain't in that equation.

A corporation will always try to get the mostest by paying the leastest

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Just a guess, but I think it is due to the people who have the authority in the corporation to set salaries and bonuses saying so?

ok

just clarifying

sounded like you were implying that the market set those


ribbing you

[GoldenRivet]

Anyhow. Tangents and hijacks aside, I think it's time for a major withdrawal from Iraq.

Those folks have had not quite a decade to get their house in order over there.

At some point, you haveto take bottle from baby.

[TFatseas]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Anyhow. Tangents and hijacks aside, I think it's time for a major withdrawal from Iraq.

Those folks have had not quite a decade to get their house in order over there.

At some point, you haveto take bottle from baby.

Already going on apparently. Down to 50,000 troops in support roles for the Iraqi Government.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Anyhow. Tangents and hijacks aside, I think it's time for a major withdrawal from Iraq.

Those folks have had not quite a decade to get their house in order over there.

At some point, you haveto take bottle from baby.

that we can agree on!

All we can ever do is help a people establish a fair government, we can't do it for them. It is well past the point where the Iraqi's need to take over the heavy lifting.

One can't just demobilize and tell the troops "Thank you for your service, now get the <explicative deleted) out of here".

They can, they always have done and they always will do